helicopterjim R.I.P. Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 As Callithrix says The only time I've induced pinging on the 03 is when I should've down shifted to pass someone I have the same problem with my 01 rosso mandello with FBF 11:1 pistons. If I do not have the optimal fuel I must keep the revs up to avoid pinging. However when I have the proper fuel this is not an issue. I do want to add that I am not an advocate of asking my engine to deliver maximum power at low RPM's. Horsepower is a function of RPM so if I want to go fast I rev it up!
helicopterjim R.I.P. Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 Hello Al I'll let you know how the Mike Rich pistons seem to work I hope you do and if you can, would you show us a photo of the new pistons? It would be interesting to see if there is a big noticeable difference. Here is a comparison of the stock pistons with the FBF 11:1 pistons!
jimbemotumbo Posted January 5, 2005 Posted January 5, 2005 Just found this thread and have to chime in ... Al isn't the only one fretting over fuel. We have lower octane Oxy fuel here in Colorado too. Add to that the altitude and you end up with all sorts of fun trying to hop up your V-twin. High comp just doesn't work here without going to stockpiling race fuel. After 2 years, I finally got my carby Road King sussed and found max power vs gas / reliability to be best with mufflers, air filter, and a mild cam. The comp pistons gave me headaches and never could get rid of the pinging. Went back to stock pistons and threw in the cam and I have been quite happy. My buddy's all have big inch motors and high comp and their motors are always in the shop getting upper end rebuilds. Those with mostly stock motors find them very reliable. The goose might be able to stand some head/valve work, but I would be afraid of doing too much and killing the torque. Maybe just a good valve job and light polish to go with my exhaust/intake and PCIII?
Enzo Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 I have recently dropped in the FBF pistons into my 2000 V11 Sport. Greg Field basically did this for me in his garage. Under clean and warm, well-lighted conditions (which we didn't have), it is not too bad an operation. However, the retaining pieces that go on the ends of the rod pin ARE A BEAR TO INSERT. (Did you also find this to be true Helicopterjim?) I have pictures of this operation on my website at the link below. Also, my early impressions. I will have to say that I do not have a firm opinion at this time until the rings are well-seated. I did NOT hone the cylinders. Just dropped 'em in and rode away. It may take some miles to seat properly, so I don't know about the effects. My initial impressions and pictures are here: FBF Piston modification
helicopterjim R.I.P. Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 However, the retaining pieces that go on the ends of the rod pin ARE A BEAR TO INSERT. (Did you also find this to be true Helicopterjim?) 40387[/snapback] Yes! Did you get the PCIII map from FBF? They have a map that is very close to perfect. With the Stucchi crossover it is great - but a little off with the Mistral crossover. Enjoy!
Enzo Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 Jim, I'm running my own custom two-into-one exhaust that I designed. I had my bike dynoed to match the pipes. The bike runs very well with no pinging or backfiring at any time. Since I dropped in the FBF pistons, I don't notice any new problems with the map I have already. It will take some time to seat the new pistons, and then I'll look at my plugs and keep an ear open for any unusual signs that I need a new map. How did you get those retainers in? I think I bent one of them with my pliers and that is not good. I put it in anyway and hope it is ok. They are sprung SO HARD that I don't think that thing is ever going to budge from its track. Did you use your fingers to pinch them and just force them in?
callison Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 Hey Enzo's back! Did you find out what was keeping you from logging in?
antonio carroccio Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 11:1 éh? Uuhmmm, how much a couple of pistons? Enzo? Jim?
helicopterjim R.I.P. Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 How did you get those retainers in? I think I bent one of them with my pliers and that is not good. I put it in anyway and hope it is ok. They are sprung SO HARD that I don't think that thing is ever going to budge from its track. Did you use your fingers to pinch them and just force them in? 40389[/snapback] I used a type of dental pick (heavy duty) and the assistance of Gord at Valley Moto Guzzi. It was slow and frustrating but with patience they went in. They did pop out several times and had to chase them across the floor. I'll ask Gord what he thinks of bending them. BTW I found that my bike is not noticeably faster on the top end but ever so much more responsive and quicker in the mid range. I think it was the best mod I did to my bike!
Guest Jeff in Ohio Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 How did you get those retainers in? I think I bent one of them with my pliers and that is not good. I put it in anyway and hope it is ok. They are sprung SO HARD that I don't think that thing is ever going to budge from its track. Did you use your fingers to pinch them and just force them in? 40389[/snapback] Are the ones Ferracci sends a standard split ring retainer? If so, get one end of the ring started on the groove, then stick somthing like a small screwdriver in the little notch in the side of the piston at the bottom of the wristpin hole and then 'walk' the other end of the ring down the screwdriver and it will snap into place. They make special tools to pop them in super quick, but I have never had a problem doing it this way, even though the rings can be quite stiff at times. it's a pain inthe ass though. t can rank right up there in frustration level like snapping together 3 piece pushrod tubes on a harley or juggling three wrenches with 2 hands while trying to adjust harley pushrods......
pete roper Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 If you bent one of the circlips I'd say get the thing apart quicksmart and replace 'em. If one pops out you'll trash not only the piston but the bore as well! A Couple of points here. The pistons *look* very similar to the ones we were using in the race bike, I imagine that Wiseco has a series of blanks in various bore sizes that can be addapted for use in a variety of motors. They are a very nice piston and the three part Deeves scrapers are a joy but as you've found out the circlips are a pain. The new pistons we had made here in Oz for the racebike are a bit lighter than the Wisecos but use the same rings and circlips, (which I believe you call 'snap rings' in the USA?). I also detested the inconvenience of trying to install the second circlip with the piston on the rod, it's a right frontbottom of a job, but I got out the micrometer and found that, at least in our case, the wire diameter of the clip was identical to that of a standard Guzzi circlip with the installation *ears* on it. So I used one of these for the end of the pin that had to be put in after installation. I worked on the principle that the weight increase was going to be so small as to be irrelevant but the ease of installation was worth it. If you go this way DON'T just bung 'em in, mic up the circlip and make sure the wire diameter is the same for yours as this is vital. Also it should be noted that circlips should always be installed with the split in the clip at eaither 12 O'Clock or 6 O'Clock as in this position there is no likelyhood of the clip being forced closed by inertial forces at TDC or BDC as the piston stops and changes direction. While this is unlikely it's worth avoiding the risk, especially on motors that are reved hard. Pete
Enzo Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 BTW I found that my bike is not noticeably faster on the top end but ever so much more responsive and quicker in the mid range. I think it was the best mod I did to my bike! Yes Jim, I already noticed a big increase in midrange. Very nice, usable power. Top end I don't know about, but so far it seems about the same. Also, a smoother engine with less vibration all over. Antonio: The pistons were under $300 USD from FBF. from Pete: I also detested the inconvenience of trying to install the second circlip with the piston on the rod, it's a right frontbottom of a job, but I got out the micrometer and found that, at least in our case, the wire diameter of the clip was identical to that of a standard Guzzi circlip with the installation *ears* on it. So I used one of these for the end of the pin that had to be put in after installation. I worked on the principle that the weight increase was going to be so small as to be irrelevant but the ease of installation was worth it. Pete, this is exactly what we TRIED to do, but the stock circlips with the 'ears' were a bit too big and we couldn't use them. I hear your warning about bending one of them. We debated it and took a good look at it in its track. These clips were so 'sprung' and stiff that I think I am OK. It is sitting in its 'race' pretty well and looks ALMOST just like the other side. I am an impatient fellow, and was pissed off that FBF wouldn't send a couple goddamn spares with the set. Wouldn't that have been nice? After all that work, I wanted to get it buttoned up and put back on the road. Jeff - we did it just like you say. And, we also shot one or two which made me pretty damn nervous when you don't have a spare.
Skeeve Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 other side. I am an impatient fellow, and was pissed off that FBF wouldn't send a couple goddamn spares with the set. Wouldn't that have been nice? After all that work, I wanted to get it buttoned up and put back on the road. 40450[/snapback] Why don't they use teflon buttons? I thought circlips and their hassle-prone installation had been made redundant by the invention of the teflon gudgeon-pin plug?
emry Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 The teflon pins are great for drag bike, but on a "hopefully" long distance street bike they simple wear to much. I used to see alot of probelms from guys running high output GS1000's on the street. The pin would begin to float to much and scar the small end of the rod, and then piston knock would follow. Good money for a "I told you so" upgrade though. Pete, here in the state's we (I) always called the piston pin clips - "circlips" and the ones with the ears "internal circlips": as opposed to "external circlips", like on trans shafts. But the real buggers are the SpiroLocks. Think of them as key ring for the piston pin. ( like a over lapping circlip.) Very common in the aftermarket auto world, but at least you can put the damn things in with the piston and rod on a bench. As for the shooting circlips.(can't remember who said it, Jim maybe) but get the clip started with your fingers, just one side, hold your thumb in the center, (thus preventing the "cuss and search") and work it slowly in with a small screwdrivers or pick. Since I figured it out I never have had any problems. And definately always follow the 12 or 6 o'clock rule. Cheap insurance. And watch out for this little bastard, saw him in my garage...... making my Scura's paint bubble ....
Enzo Posted January 9, 2005 Posted January 9, 2005 Hey Helicopterjim, Did you hone your cylinders when you dropped in the FBF pistons?
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