4 v engine & mgs street legal dead

[zebulon]

That's official the 4v engine as we know it actually, is dead.

First sign was the introduction of the Griso with the 2V engine.

 

The production of MGS Corsa was the last pheniw return for it

 

The mgs corsa use the last engine the factory has in stock (they are actually checking if they could do the 50 MGS Corsa they haveannounced)

 

 

MGS street legal will NEVER be produced with the 4v engine.

Till now, no information about a release with 2v engine

 

 

So Daytona & most of all Daytona RS owners keep it , now you are the owner of a rare bike.

To keep it in mind Daytona RS world production was only about 308 bikes

 

About the guzzi engine, Giuseppe Ghezzi tell that it is impossible to produce a real race bike with the engine conception & the cardan transmission ...

[Murray]

Bring on the water cooled machine. Kinda suspected as much 2 valve air cooled MGS doesn't really cut it for me. Wonder how far the VA10 is away from production.

[callison]

I've heard that MG has a completely different water cooled engine in mind instead of the VA10. Maybe there were some intellectual property ownership issues with the VA10. We'll never know. There is a very good interview with the lead engineer from the VA10 project at:

 

Danilo Mojoli Interview

 

 

[Lex]

I guess we have to admit a 4-valve air cooled engine mounted in-line with a drive shaft is silly and throwing more money at an engine/ drive train with a very limited future is probably a good business move but I am still sorry to see this news. I guess all we can hope is that the water pumper will at half as much fun as the 2-valve motor and they keep the old engine around as long as pollution and noise laws let them.

 

Come to think of it, start with the Breva 1100, take another shot at the styling (I don't dislike the Breva like some folks but the V11 Sport/ Le Mans and the MGS-01 clearly show Guzzi can do better), beef up the chassis for another twenty HP and I could easily see my garage converting to all Guzzi. I think the SP series would be up to an SP IV now, sounds like a good home for the water pumper after it is proven in the (probably chain drive) MGS-02.

 

Trying to see the bright side,

 

Lex

[Paul Minnaert]

iuseppe Ghezzi tell that it is impossible to produce a real race bike with the engine conception & the cardan transmission

 

So I have to go to work and make something of the chaindrive project :-)

 

Why can't a 4v aircooled engine be reliable? Ok if you want an engine that is rocksolid with 160 hp and aircooling, there might be an challenge.

But something less, doesn't BMW show that a relaiable 4v aircooled engine can be made? The headdesign with the cams, is very identical to the 4v guzzi engine.

[Lex]

So I have to go to work and make something of the chaindrive project :-)

 

Why can't a 4v aircooled engine be reliable? Ok if you want an engine that is rocksolid with 160 hp and aircooling, there might be an challenge.

But something less, doesn't BMW show that a relaiable 4v aircooled engine can be made?  The headdesign with the cams, is very identical to the 4v guzzi engine.

35087[/snapback]

 

Paul,

 

From what I've read the problem is that the more holes you put in an air cooled head the harder it is to keep everything straight and keep the head from developing cracks. Liquid cooling lets the designer even out the temperature between the very hot parts exhaust parts the much cooler intake side.

 

I understand that in an air cooled four valve the bit of metal between the exhaust valves is the big problem, the valve seats can distort and the head crack because this area is getting hot gasses on both sides and has trouble shedding the heat. The only solution is to back off on the power (power is heat, after all) until the parts have an acceptable life.

 

The above is just what I have read, I have no personal experience in this area.

 

Lex

[Guest MotoMessiah]

Victory's been able to do so - a 4 valve over head cam air cooled v-twin. Very good motor from what I've read.

[Paul Minnaert]

Victory's been able to do so - a 4 valve over head cam air cooled v-twin. Very good motor from what I've read.

 

80hp@5500rpm from 1500cc, and with competition race kit up to 95 hp. That's what a centauro does standard, with racekit some more.

Problems arrise when you want to take the engine much above 130hp.

And even 130 is to much for the guzzifactory.

[Lex]

Victory's been able to do so - a  4 valve over head cam air cooled v-twin. Very good motor from what I've read.

35134[/snapback]

 

MotoM,

 

I am not saying you can't build an air cooled four valve motor, I'm saying you can not make competitive power with an air cooled four valve motor. Note I said "The only solution is to back off on the power (power is heat, after all) until the parts have an acceptable life".

 

The Victory is a perfect example, an engine with over liter and a half of displacement that makes what, 75 HP? There are many air cooled four valve engines. All the Japanese companies built them in the Eighties. A few dirt bikes and cruisers (the Victory, Yamaha makes some, etc.) are still being built with four valve, air cooled engines. None of these engines makes competitive power for its displacement.

 

When the engineers went for more power they all changed to water cooling. Suzuki worked with air/ oil cooling on the GSXRs up to the early nineties, even they gave up when they hit the thermal limits of oil cooling.

 

I can only guess at what is happening in Guzzi HQ but I think they may have come to the conclusion that reviving the cam-in-head motor would take too much of the limited capital available. Building a new (water cooled) engine that will still be viable in ten years makes more since than dumping money into an old design.

 

If it matters to anyone I'm sad to hear this, I love my V11 but (basically) the same engine with another 20 HP would be great. I like air cooled engines, unfortunately physics doesn't give a damn about what I like.

 

 

JMHO,

 

Lex

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

That's official the 4v engine as we know it actually, is dead.

Where did you hear this news?

I hope my deposit on an MGS still gets me one. I have been waiting for almost a year now.

[zebulon]

If your deposit is for what i call the MGS 01 or "Corsa" (not street legal) and that your are in the 50 first people certainly I hope for you

 

For a street legal MGS not the racing one with the 1225 engine, you can forget it

[Woodburn]

Do you mind sharing your source for this information?

Thanks!

[zebulon]

Do you mind sharing your source for this informations?

 

Informations coming from someone that works for moto guzzi.

The information is also confirm by anima guzzista team

 

They don't seems to be sure to made a set of 50 mgs racing announced.

perhaps less than this will be produced from the anima source

[Admin Jaap]

If they build less than 50, will the MGS Corsa be homologated for racing in the US?

[Paul Minnaert]

Only the factory has an idea of the number of preordered corsa's. They won't make more than that. And of couse if the 4v engine is the problem, then there might be a maximum they can make. If they consume all 4V heads in stock, what when you need a head? My spares are getting more value every day:-)

 

But if this is the case, I can understand why they don't want to build the corsa's , only good for collectors. They can't sell corsa's for 20 grand and after that tell you they aren't going to deliver any parts. There might follow some legal action.

 

On the other hand, until now it must have cost a considerable amount of money. And throwing that away, when you're short of money....

I've seen in cast the rear gearbox part and the centerpart of the swingarm.