wide-band O2 monitoring

[beauchemin]

I'm interested in installing a wide-band O2 monitor - as a tuning tool. Does anyone have experience with one or more of the available systems? It looks like the price of a pre-built kit is about the same as a couple of dyno sessions. I have no electronics experience, so the DIY kits won't work for me. TechEdge in Australia sells the DIY kits as well as pre-built units. Daytona Sensors offers a complete ready-to-run system for $425 http://www.daytona-sensors.com/WEGO2.html

 

Any advice out there?

Chris B.

[JuhaV]

http://www.widebandcommander.com/

 

Dynojet seems to also offer one system.

 

br, JuhaV

[RacerX]

I'm interested in installing a wide-band O2 monitor - as a tuning tool. Any advice out there?

 

Chris,

If it were me, I'd spend the money on a PCIII Dyno-tune, as you'll drive your self crazy with that data. Technology is good enough nowadays to offer near two-stroke like tuning on your four-stroke motor. You'll be chasing your tail forever, which is why the Dynojet folks still prefer/recommend Dyno-built mapping to 02-sensored mapping. Yes Dynojet does offer the unit posted above.

 

I've only heard of a few Moto-drag-racers that are using the wide band set-up... this is for optimum tuning at wide-open throttle at each event (which is a very limited part of the bikes rev range).

 

My $.02,

ToddGuzziTech.com

[beauchemin]

Todd, I realize that manual tuning with an O2 sensor will be a slow, iterative, process. However, if I could datalog O2 readings, along with rpm and TPS voltage, would those 3 data items be enough to iteratively optimize a PC3 map? I assume that the dyno is measuring only power and O2 to create the PC3 map - is there anything else?

 

thanks

Chris

[JuhaV]

Todd, I realize that manual tuning with an O2 sensor will be a slow, iterative, process.  However, if I could datalog O2 readings, along with rpm and TPS voltage, would those 3 data items be enough to iteratively optimize a PC3 map?  I assume that the dyno is measuring only power and O2 to create the PC3 map - is there anything else?

 

thanks

Chris

37002[/snapback]

 

Hi Chris,

 

I do believe that you can figure out your tuning that way. I have been doing that with Cliff Jeffries My16M ECU and Optimiser-display that allows me to see the lambda-probe reading (and also a lot of other stuff) in real time. I only have a narrow-band lambda probe, but it seems to be sufficient to see if the mixture is approaching stoichiometric, which is too lean if you are looking for power

 

Driving around with the probe helps to see where I need to adjust the map. After some iterations you will get the map close to perfect. And what is important, you will get the map correct for normal riding situations, i.e. those rpms and TPS-values that you normally use.

 

If you have a Powercommander + wideband lambda-probe with display (and preferably also with datalogging) you should get there. It will take time and consideration, though.

 

I wrote earlier in the "Roaddyno" threat the following :

 

"What confuses me here is that according to my understanding most of the dynos out there are inertia type dynos. These are more or less "accelerometers" that allow to measure the rwp and torque during a full throttle acceleration. This kind of dyno "simulates" the real life situation when a bike is accelerated from idle to red line with throttle wide open. The other type of dynos are brake dynos that allow the bike to be kept under certain steady state load and rpm conditions. Changing the load and rpm one can check different parts of the map.

 

The question is : How do you actually check the partial load and throttle conditions using an inertia dyno ? These conditions would be those normally applicable during normal riding situations. In dynojet dynos, do they make several accelerations with different throttle settings ? What is usually shown, are only those curves where throttle has been wide open -> max. power & torque"

 

I hope that somebody could clarify this, because otherwise I will maintain my current believe that inertia dynos are mainly good for checking max power with max throttle.

 

br, JuhaV

[luhbo]

Hi to all,

 

since 2 month or so I have a My15M in my V11 and so far it is working quite well. The last 4 weeks I had also a narrow-band lambda sensor installed and was on the road with it for aprox. 1000 km (commuting 70km one direction). I can proof what Juha wrote before. Even with a cheap narrowband sensor it's quite easy and fast to get a very usable and effective map. The My15M or My16M software has the capability to autotune the map, normaly you do this exactly on those roads where you usually use your bike. So what can one want more?

 

Nevertheless I am also going to install a wideband sensor (WBO2.com), because they should respond very much quicker and should of course show exactly where beyond lambda=1 I am. Also I am afraid that those narrowband sensors are not really capable to deal with high loads. Cruising around mine works perfectly, "tutta la birra" it is reacting as if the engine runs way too rich!

 

What am I planning? I think I have two possibilities. One would be to work out a lambda=1 map first, then modify this with excel or whatever to have certain cells lambda=0.8 or 1.1 or so and use this map then "open loop".

The other one basically would be the same, starting already open loop and logging the entire map (going through the map horizontally and up and down). The result then could also be corrected via some spreadsheet.

 

I think the above is only possible if you have your actuall map at hand, means that you know how much your ecu injects at e.g. 5000-50% thottle. I have this possibility using the My15M ecu. With a power commander and the original WM unit I could do nothing like that. In these terms a power commander is just another black box you have to carry around.

 

Greets, Hubert

[beauchemin]

Hubert, as you may know, the PC3 fuel map is simply an overlay on top of the ECU's fuel map. The x-axis is throttle position, the y-axis is rpm, and the values are percentage adjustments to the injector pulse width. I don't see why I can't achieve the same result as you with your My15M. I can't run closed-loop, but I can adjust my map to alter fuel delivery at various points via the PC3. Am I missing something?

 

I think the key is being able to datalog the rpm, throttle position, and O2 readings.

 

Have you considered systems other than the TechEdge one? Where exactly do you install the sensor?

 

ChrisB

[Guest TT Guzzi]

First, I'm sorry for my poor english.

I have V11 Le Mans 2002, it has 36000 kms. Since the beginning, the engine run too rich, especially has mode low.

At 6000 kms , believing to attenuate the problem, I had mounted Mistral, X and K&N.

Consumption was reasonable (+/- 7,5 l/100) but the spar plug were very black of soot and I was to change them every 5000 kms.

Finally, I had mounted a PCIII USB and a Wide Band Commander. After several tests on road and modification of the chart (map) step by step, the problem is regulated. Now, easily, I can make my own custom map . Consumption is gone down to 6,5 l/100.

For me, it is the ideal solution because. the settings getting just the way I like them.

 

http://www.widebandcommander.com

[beauchemin]

TT Guzzi - thanks for your reply with photos! No need to apologize, your English is fine! Did you consider any other wide-band systems? I also have the PCIII, and I want to be able to tune it correctly without going to a dyno. Are you data logging your rpm, throttle position and O2 readings?

 

ChrisB.

[Guest TT Guzzi]

Chris,

 

I do not know an other system. I am very happy with the PCIII and serious with the firm which manufactures it. I thus prefer a system produced by a mark which proved reliable. This is the reason why I bought in confidence the WBC.

 

The WBC has onboard memory to record Air Fuel Ratio, Engine RPM, Throttle Position, and Time.

I carried out the installation to be able to use this function but, I will use it later, for the precision adjustment after all my tests on road.

For the moment, I memorize in my brain the feelings and measurements that the gauge indicates according to the position of the handle of accelerator, therefore Throttle position. See photo.

Back at home, I correct the air / fuel so that it generally must be in ranges between 13 and 14.

Of origin my ECU 15M delivers an Air / fuel ratio between 10,5 and 11,5, therefore too much rich.

 

Obviously, if you are not a handyman, it is to better try to find a good - not a charlatan -specialist and to make directly regulate the ECU without passing by expensive solutions like the PCIII and the WBC.

All those which has a Guzzi know that they are often well alone when that they have mechanical problems because the distribution network and the service after sale are below of all. To keep a Guzzi, it is really necessary to be impassioned and handyman.

 

The complete installation of the WBC is more complex than that of the PCIII.

1. Install the weld Boss onto the stainless forged pipe. Not simple.

2. Install the Oxygen Sensor. Simple.

3. Install the WBC Module. Simple.

4. Connect the Power, Ground and Sensor Cables. It is necessary to use a fuse 3A max. + 12v must come from the ignition witch. It is already a little more complicated.

5. If you want, RPM can be recorded and displayed in Software. To enable this, connect the two pin RPM Pickup Cable to the Wideband Commander Module. Not simple…

6. If you want, TPS can be recorded and displayed in Software. To enable this, connect Throttle Position (TPS) Cable. Not simple…

7. To you use feature 5 and 6, connect a “lighted” switch + fused 12V. Simple.

 

Lastly, to finish, the WBC offers other functions.

a. The WBC can produce one of two outputs, both of which are configured in the software. One variation of the output is 0-5v analog and the other is 0-5mA analog.

b. A programmable Output can be configured in the software to control a devices triggered from relay coils (max 2A).

c. The gauge include with the WBC kit has an integrated warning light. This feature can be configured in the software to trigger certain thresholds met. For example, you can define the TPS, RPM and Air / Fuel, or any combination of the three to activate the light.

 

Alain , from Liège in Belgium “TT GUZZI”