Clutchless changes

[BrianG]

Yes, John, in theory there is nothing about shifting clutchlessly with a C/M gear-box. The real-world issues about missing a match with the kind of power and intertia found in our big-twins is a risk without benefit, IMHO. YMMV.

[Steve G.]

Well John, I guess it's your bike, so go for it if it turns your crank, I guess!

I really don't think this questioning of a particular way you are shifting your bike is something out of the dark ages. ...... Using a clutch, dark ages? Experienced enthusiast motorcyclists stuck in a time warp? Good one. If you are really determined to gain that extra "tenth" per shift to get down the road that much faster to your destination, you must be in a big hurry to go most everwhere. May I point out a faster way to get power to the ground, the power shift! Simply pin the engine to the stops and leave it there[ don't worry the rev limiter will look after things] and go through the gears using the clutch.

Like I said, glad most of my bikes were bought new. No telling what these things have been put through.

The term "I told you so" is ready and waiting the thread which describes that stupid Guzzi 6 speed which shifts like crap and jumps out of gear when the throttle is rolled on. Sorry John, I had to say it.

Ciao, Steve G.

[Baldini]

...chop the throttle for a split second only a tiny bit just to cause an engine to stop pulling. At the same time I hit the gearchange up and the throttle is on again. The whole thing takes probably less then 1/5 of a second and there is no stages in a throttle movement; down and up again in one quick minute jerk....

 

I don't know much about the mechanics of it, I just figure the less graunching & snatch going on the better the change. Like John, I find the quickest upshifts are without the clutch. The bike feels like it just wants to do it that way. The change, for someone coming off a 5 speed is unbelievably slick, done as John describes.

 

I did one trackday with the Scura so far, didn't use the clutch on the upshifts sometimes (trying to keep w faster accelerating bikes) & generally used box much more aggresively - didn't miss one gear the whole day. Usually crunch at least once everytime I go out more relaxed on the road. The box felt better & worked faultlessly used hard. No question - I was very surprised how good it was.

 

But most times on the road I ride in the higher gears below 6K & use the clutch nearly all the time & always on downshifts. Only time I don't use the clutch is when I'm using the revs & trying to go quick. Cos that's the way I always did it, & fear was always that clutchless = damage.

 

To those who predict destruction - have you upshifted the 6 speed without the clutch, quickly & firmly as John describes? How can anything that feels so good be so bad ???

 

The single plate models may be more suited to clutchless changes cos the lighter flywheel drops/picks up revs quicker like Pete says.

 

I did used to do same on the 5 speed but clutchless usually meant a big lurch & it was shortly after one trackday that the box gave up the ghost...Are the 5 speeds not constant mesh ( I probably know the answer to that but it's easier to ask than to think)....

 

KB

[pete roper]

Virtually all motorbike gearboxes since the dawn of forever have been constant mesh. As I said it's the difference between ratios that makes clean changing with the five speeder so much more difficult but the six speeder is a far more precise tool in almost all ways, you just can't adjust it as accurately as the old 5 speed and are depenedent on them having ensured it was machined correctly at the factory . On the whole they seem to do a much better job with the CNC cutter than Guiseppe ever did with the shim box

 

Pete

[Baldini]

...As I said ...

 

So you did. If I paid attention more maybe life would be less of a puzzle.

 

KB

[Baldini]

...only when aggresive (90% of the time...

 

John - 90% of the time???

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

Shifting poorly, with or without the clutch

Janusz, I agree with you completely but for many riders it is easier to shift properly with the clutch than without.

As long as you do shift properly - either way - I don't see a benefit of one over the other.

[dbdicker]

I don't know much about the mechanics of it, I just figure the less graunching & snatch going on the better the change. Like John, I find the quickest upshifts are without the clutch. The bike feels like it just wants to do it that way. The change, for someone coming off a 5 speed is unbelievably slick, done as John describes.

 

 

To those who predict destruction - have you upshifted the 6 speed without the clutch, quickly & firmly as John describes? How can anything that feels so good be so bad ???

 

The single plate models may be more suited to clutchless changes cos the lighter flywheel drops/picks up revs quicker like Pete says.

 

 

KB

38839[/snapback]

 

 

I'm slow as molasses but use clutchless upshifts frequently. Just feels right on this machine. I've got no bias, not looking to make great time. I actually figure I'm just a lazy s**t, if I don't hafta move my left hand for a while, all the better --- and it DOES feel so natural, the bike moves from one gear to the next absolutely seamlessly, without any lurching, noise or nuttin'. Kewl. Try it, I bet you'll like it.

 

Dan

[Motomonster]

I only practice them because I had an uncle whose clutch cable snapped while riding on the freeway. He managed to get off the road by yanking the cable to shift, but it still put the fear of god into him.

[Janusz]

John - 90% of the time??? 

38842[/snapback]

 

Yes;I do not commute.

For nice and easy, frequently with pillion, I have a cruiser.

[dlaing]

I have not been doing clutchless shifts because too many knowledgeable people have suggested it is a bad idea.

But you guys now have me convinced to give it a try.

I have noticed that with proper timing, the less clutch I use, the smoother it upshifts.

So as an exercise, I suggest one tries using less and less clutch as one discovers how to time it properly.

There really should not be a risk of damage in the learning process.

The increasing smoothness of shifts is what one is looking for.

 

 

So what are the benefits?

1 The shifts should actually become smoother(I am not sure about this, but it may be the case)

2 The clutch will wear a little less. (I think this is not a huge improvement because most of the clutch wear probably occurs launching the bike off the line)

3 Once you get the concept, your clutched shifts will be even smoother!

 

 

What are the disadvantages?

1 You get a limp left wrist....

[Janusz]

....but for many riders it is easier to shift properly with the clutch than without.

38849[/snapback]

 

On what basis you say that? Tell it to my son Tim and he will not even understand what you're talking about.

 

It is way easier to upshift clutchless since there is less to do

 

My younger son got his licence last year, attended the course before but actually asked me to teach him riding technique. He rides SV650S (the original, fantastic bike). He knows how to upshift with clutch but like me uses this complicated method only when necessary.

[Janusz]

As long as you do shift properly - either way - I don't see a benefit of one over the other.

38849[/snapback]

 

I did list the benefits on the previous page. Even numbered them 1 - 2 - 3.

 

Here is the 4th one:

When upshifting without messing with the clutch you will not know what a false neutral, grinding shift and popping out of gear is. I DID get a few false neutrals like everybody else did, but they all happened only when clutch shifting.

[Guest Brian Robson]

I did list the benefits on the previous page. Even numbered them 1 - 2 - 3.

 

You could list them 1- 368, but your verbal flagellation isn't going to convince any experienced rider to change what they find successful.

Your opinion is just that.....an opinion.

[dlaing]

 

You could list them 1- 368, but your verbal flagellation isn't going to convince any experienced rider to change what they find successful.

 

 

He may have changed my mind.

I'll keep you posted.

Please pray that I keep all my teeth