Posted speed vs actual speed [usa]

[Steve G.]

I found this an interesting topic to start, maybe wake up the forum a bit. When commenting to ratchethack on what I feel is a rather lethargic pace of 60 mph on a 'long sweeper' , I incorrectly surmised that was a hairpin pace. I still think 60 mph on long sweepers is Gold Wing retired couple pace. Perhaps what we have is a different idea of a long sweeper.

I too have ridden street bikes since 16, so 29yrs, and dirt since 6yrs old. To me long sweepers are done faster. 60 mph is Pt. Reyes Station to Bodega Bay on the west coast. Long sweepers is Lolo Pass [the famous sign with a squiggly arrow, with the words "for 77 miles"], quite boring unless you are doing over 80mph.

I've also noticed that riding in the United States, some things are consistant. One, that the road signs are fairly good, but that they are mostly universally posted too slow. When you see a yellow sign indicating a corner or turn, and a slower speed, most always one can take that corner safely at double what they are posting. If the yellow sign says 25 mph, usually it can be done at 50mph. I can deal with this consistancy, I can't deal with the US revenue generation patrols!

Ciao, Steve G.

[Murray]

Speed limits I'm leaving alone but with reagaurds to the yellow advisory signs this seems to be a common theme that they are posted at around half the speed you can achive on a relativly late model motorcycle. However its worth keeping in mind that those signs arn't purely for our benifit. The signs are usally set so a 120 tonne road train can take the corner at around the speed posted without too much trouble in dry normal conditions. Add a fairly heavy duty of care on the athourity posting them in a fairly litigious society and its quickly apparent why they are so conservative. They do hovever provide a rough guide when blind riding a road.

[bento]

i'd say i could do most corners i know at twice the posted speed. but i think 20 over it is a safer rule.

[staedtler]

i always thought they were posted for harley's...

 

 

sweepers at 60?... ha! ha!

[Motomonster]

I was told that they were so low for old people in old cars.

 

I know from, uh, experience that an MC rider can comfortably take corners at double the posted speed limit.

[Admin Jaap]

They do the same thing in Holland. At sharp corners or turns we have an advisory speed. To me it means open throttle!

[Guest ratchethack]

I still think 60 mph on long sweepers is Gold Wing retired couple pace. Perhaps what we have is a different idea of a long sweeper.

 

If the yellow sign says 25 mph, usually it can be done at 50mph.

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Points well taken Steve. Let us not be pickers of nits. But I submit that all sweepers are not created equal. After all, speeds and length vary all over the map (so to speak). I know that the ones I was specifically referring to are familiar to many So Cal Guzzisti, who might agree with my characterization of 60 mph sweepers, but maybe not. But is one man's sweeper another man's hairpin?! Hmmmmmm.... An interesting frame-of-reference consideration. Of course there are shorter, longer, faster, and slower sweepers and hairpins. Sheeeeesh....

 

From my point of view, the same stretch of road with aforementioned downhill, off-camber hairpins posted at 15 mph has a few that I believe could only be negotiated (safely or otherwise ) by few with the exception of Max Biaggi and possibly Todd Eagan (he of the substantially pavement-shortened footpeg nubs) at anything over 10 mph. I didn't actually see Todd run thru 'em on Dec 4 at the Rally & Toy Ride (as some may have) because I had stopped to help a Pal who picked up a nail...

 

It's been my experience with back-country riding that the general 10-30 mph "cushion" seemingly built into posted curve speed signs isn't at all consistent. Somehow I doubt if many Rocket Scientists were consulted in the posting of speeds for curves on county roads. Many of the roads around here were first built for horse-drawn wagons, which I think makes for the best kind of riding. There are a few posted 30 mph curves that can comfortably be run at 70 around here. I call most of these sweepers, but as always, YMMV.

 

Just a few road thoughts as we approach 4 days of rain here...

 

Ratchethack

[callison]

I'm grateful we don't have 120 ton road trains here in the USA. That would be a sure fire recipe for disaster considering the driving skills of the rank and file citizen.

 

Yellow cautionary signs. Yep, you can just about always double the posted speed and traverse the area - even in a car, but occasionally, you'll run across one that actually means what it says. So, if you're heading up to Mt St. Helens in southern Washington on state highway 503, pay heed to the sharp turn signs. They definitely mean what they say. This is an incredible ride by the way. The trip up to Mt. St. Helens has to be ranked among the best experiences you can have. Not all of the road is great, so I'm not ranking the ride by that, although it's mostly pretty good, but the experience is often the thing , and this one is tops!

 

What I personally regard as the best motorcycle road I've ever encountered, is Hwy 138 coming down from the Crater Lake area in southern Oregon. Wonderful road, first rate pavement, slow corners marked for 35 - 45 MPH which can be easily navigated at 65. 51+ miles of sweepers that are wonderfully rhythmic at 80 MPH and which could probably be run at speeds of 120 by the competent few - which leaves me out. Fabulous ride. Try it on a weekday morning when there's less probability of local law enforcement.

[Guest Bruce]

Generally I find +20mph comfortable and at 2X start getting a little nervous mostly due to things that are difficult to see, ie oil spills, gravel kicked onto the road, etc. Tke bike is just fine and the rider aparently OK.

 

Mostly we've got to trust our eyes and our own judgement, not the local government. Reading the verge and good lane positioning are essential skills. Of course paying close attention to the road is crucial. Last year while bombing along a rural road I saw something odd in the road ahead. It turned out to be a car door leaned up against a plastic bucket which someone put there because there was a large sink hole in the road!

[Skeeve]

...

I've also noticed that riding in the United States, some things are consistant. One, that the road signs are fairly good, but that they are mostly universally posted too slow. When you see a yellow sign indicating a corner or turn, and a slower speed, most always one can take that corner safely at double what they are posting. If the yellow sign says 25 mph, usually it can be done at 50mph. I can deal with this consistancy, I can't deal with the US revenue generation patrols!

                                                                              Ciao, Steve G.

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Those cautionary speed signs [in yellow, vs. the max. speed signs in white] are set based on the safe speed for a model T w/ wood wheels & balloon tires [ie, pre-bias ply] or a heavily-laden tractor trailer rig. So yes, it is usually quite easy to exceed that suggested speed in any other vehicle.

[callison]

wood wheels

 

I see those from time to time as the local Model T club tools around. Not that it would be feasible (or wise), can you imagine a V11 Sport with wood spokes? Why buy OZ or PVM or go for regular spokes when you could turn heads with some genuine wooden wagon wheel spokes. Boy, would that get you noticed. Take it down to the local Harley hangout for exposure and then wait a week or two to see how many of them join the new craze...

[Ralph Werner]

Read the road not the signs because signed limits are only a warning. We all have probably gone hot into a 25 MPH turn that had a decreasing radius.

 

Man, does that get the adrenalin pumpin'!

[callison]

Ralph, you need to ride that road to Mt. St. Helens. The sharp turn signs are more than just warnings! Those turns (90˚ in ten feet) will do more than get your blood pumping when you're moving along at a good clip. I've only seen one other warning sign in over 100,000 miles of riding other than the ones on that road that meant exactly what it said. That other sign is a 15 MPH corner warning in Tilden park east of Berkely, California. I entered that corner at 20 mph. And went off of the road.

 

I like the 25 MPH warning on the back road I use coming home from work. Even in my Prius, it's good for 55, on the bike, 65 easy. Freaks out the guys trying to tailgate you though when you dive into the curve, uphill, obscured by a tree and immediately followed by an equally sharp curve going the other direction. Barbed wire on one side, downhill into the ditch on the other. The power pole at the apex gets sheared off by the careless/unwary/unskillled car drivers several times a year. This same road claims an idiot on one of the 90 degree blind turns with a cliff about once every 3 weeks. Sort of like Darwinism, it filters out the bad drivers.

[todd haven]

This same road claims an idiot on one of the 90 degree blind turns with a cliff about once every 3 weeks. Sort of like Darwinism, it filters out the bad drivers.

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Carl,

You'll love Oklahoma.

Fewer cliffs == more idiots

 

Some of those local boys can drive, tough.

Had some hard on my butt going through Arkansas.

 

In old clapped-out pickup trucks.

 

Not much question why shine-runners became Nascar drivers.

[callison]

The nice things about Oklahoma are that my Dad lives in OKC, the house will be paid for and the state is central to everyplace I want to visit - which is everywhere. I have a brother down in Bastrop, so I'll undoubtedly have to pay a visit to MPH, Ken Hand and may even try to find where I went to first grade in Waco.