tank slap v11 sport

[docc]

No doubt the Red Frames were harder to set up than the typical Guzzi. Delivered very soft with those Pirelli Dragon tires made mine susceptible to high speed weave. Weave at speed is always made worse by increasing the steering damping.

 

Such a sudden incident like Guido's picth-off doesn't lend itself to explanation by suspension set-up or frame geometry. Sounds more like the kind of thing that happens from sudden input as you would expect from a broken chain, motor seize or a side stand impact.

[luhbo]

 

Such a sudden incident like Guido's picth-off doesn't lend itself to explanation by suspension set-up or frame geometry. Sounds more like the kind of thing that happens from sudden input as you would expect from a broken chain, motor seize or a side stand impact.

 

 

I had a crash myself in summer last year. Went into a curve as usual and all of a sudden found myself sliding on the street behind the bike, direction crash barrier.

 

All I thought was "Hey, how come..." and "Shit, now it's bent!". No clue what could have happened.

 

The explanation was quite easy, though. First came a sign "Bikes 30 km/h only", probably meant only for beginners, I mean 30 km/h, if you know what I mean. Well, second came a slight mill-out in the pavement, about 6mm deep and 100 mm wide, more or less parallel to my way for about 3 meters, third a less slight bike slide as described above, fourth a wheel chair for 6 weeks (only!).

 

Now, what's been the reason? The bike or me although I absolutely had no clue what I could have done wrong in this moment? The bike very very likely was not guilty I'd say!

 

Hubert

[Guest ratchethack]

sad to hear about the slapper, incidents like that always get me down to the garage to check things over yet again. let the healing begin...

Mdude, I'm glad the Wilbers fork springs worked out so well for you. I wouldn't trade mine for ANY other springs, complete with any other fork!

 

Coupla items WRT Y'er comments above:

 

1. Despite the title of this thread, there is NO evidence whatsoever that Guido had a tank slapper. He has no memory of it, nor is there anything in his recollection that would even suggest it, quite the contrary. The chances of amnesia without loss of consciousness are slim to zip. A rider doesn't EVER tend to forget a TS, per my first-hand experience in my long post above, and my conversations with others with similar experiences. As a keenly interested observer, IMHO the liklihood of a TS in Guido's case, after reading all his accounts for 2 years on 2 boards and examining the photos, approaches ZERO.

 

2. The incident was 2 years ago. He's all healed up now physically. But unfortunately, he's still apparently left with a latent, persistent inclination to blame the design of the motorcycle for the crash. I hope to've helped him in some way to complete his mental healing. Without gaining a correct understanding of what happened (and what didn't happen), even in the likely event that he never gains a complete understanding, probabilities alone would suggest he could be a candidate for a repeat performance unless he learns as much as possible from his experience. IMHO, part of a correct understanding means acceptance that the design of the motorcycle is not faulty in any way that would tend to "inherently" make it crash prone.

 

This is just me, but if I believed there were an inherent problem with the design of the bike that could have caused this kind of accident, I'd never ride it again. Since Guido intends to upgrade suspension, he evidently intends to ride it again. I would hope that before he does, he comes to have confidence in the integrity of the design and its inherently HIGH stability and safety, and that he also comes to understand how this can be compromised by neglect of correct basic suspension setup.

 

My take is, lacking a complete understanding of the root cause, best at minimum remedy and eliminate the potential contributory factors on the basis of likely probability.

 

Handling considerations aside, if this thread doesn't flag the importance of attention to proper suspension setup from a safety perspective, I don't know what would.

[Guest ratchethack]

Such a sudden incident like Guido's picth-off doesn't lend itself to explanation by suspension set-up or frame geometry. Sounds more like the kind of thing that happens from sudden input as you would expect from a broken chain, motor seize or a side stand impact.

Docc, I agree completely, per my long post above. Lack of suspension setup would NOT likely be the sole cause, as I said above. Would it likely have contributed to the cause? Again, I don't think there's any question about it. A poorly set up suspension compromises all situations on the road at all times -- particularly in the hands of someone not familiar with the bike. He stated that he had been wobbling around curves. Something was clearly NOT right, and NOT consistent with a correctly set up motorcycle -- short frame Guzzi, or any other.

 

I'm with you on the overwhelming liklihood of a single event as the primary cause, as yet unidentified, but the transmission has certainly been an "item of interest".

No doubt the Red Frames were harder to set up than the typical Guzzi.

Yes, I b'lieve this fits the experience of many many short frame riders, at least here in the US. The stock-issue .6 kg/mm springs I gratefully yanked out o' my own Marz forks were/still are (until removed) an abomination for anyone above around 140 lbs., causing lots of misunderstanding and problems. A correct match of spring rate to load, laden & unladen sags correctly set, and Bob's y'er Uncle.

[docc]

I'm not convinced the swing arms on spine frames are all so carefully centered. 'Pretty close' or whatever Italian is for that.

 

I'm not saying this is causative for crashing, just an observation that it is one more item worth tuning carefully to acheive the highest possible stability.

[Guest ratchethack]

I'm not convinced the swing arms on spine frames are all so carefully centered. 'Pretty close' or whatever Italian is for that.

 

I'm not saying this is causative for crashing, just an observation that it is one more item worth tuning carefully to acheive the highest possible stability.

Docc, FYI - here's a link to a swingarm alignment procedure that's SURE to tickle y'er fancy:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...ost&p=46556

[DeBenGuzzi]

never had anything close to a tank slapper myself, stock suspension all around, Damper on 1 or 2 clicks, Tires and bad damper must have something to do with it

 

Dave: "FWIW, I now swear by Pirelli and Metzeler, though I am sure there are other good tires out there, my testing has given me a bias for these brands."

 

I love pirelli, too bad toyo doesn't make bike tires I hear great things about them for cars and trucks. unless they do? I haven't seen any.

[badmotogoozer]

I'm pre-disposed to hedonism, whether pleasurable substances or italian food . It's a constant battle. Thank goodness I'm not handsome or hung like a rhino, I'd probably be dead from V.D.

 

You and me both, brother, you and me both!

 

I thought I sensed a kindred spirit.

 

Rj

[Dan M]

Yes, I know it is not good for my heart. I'm pre-disposed to hedonism, whether pleasurable substances or italian food . It's a constant battle. Thank goodness I'm not handsome or hung like a rhino, I'd probably be dead from V.D.

 

I'll look into the springs. The front seems o.k., but Ihaven't set the sag. The rear is a pain and detracts from the bike. Maybe I can even do the sag in the garage this coming month.

 

Hey Mattress,

 

It surely is undersprung front & rear if you are at 220lbs. I was bottoming mine regularly on these fine Illinois roads at 180lbs. I don't have Ohlins, but resprung the Marz fork with Wilburs springs and switched to a Wilburs shock in back. With everything dialed in the difference is remarkable.