Freedom of speech

[Admin Jaap]

I visited Enzo's forum a few times and I applaude the free speech, unmoderated thing that is going on there. I've found some real gems there, but some members use this freedom only to curse, insult other people, discriminate and rant... To me that has nothing to do with free speech, but with common decency.

 

(BTW, this is a one time opportunity to speak your mind. Use it wisely , please keep it clean and within the boundries of this thread)

[Janusz]

My view is that any restriction which is not directly preventing anybody from use force or fraud agaist an individual is wrong.

 

Nobody can injure me in any way no matter what he writes and therefore I couldn't care less what he says on any internet forum. If somebody enjoys being nasty, rude or otherwise making idiot of himself according to my opinion and I don't like it I just pay no attention to it; it's simple and easy for me.

 

One of big pluses of total freedom is that it indentifies morons right away and allows one to continue an useful discussion with others.

[Martin Barrett]

With freedom comes responsiblity and the obligation to use it such.

 

Here in the UK there has been a bit of an uproar over a play which features a rape and murder set in Sikh temple. It was being performed in Birmingham which has a large Sikh community. Obviously the author, who I understand is also a Skih, has achieved her 15 minutes of fame. The production was pulled after it was stormed by actavists. If it is run elsewhere is guarenteed an audiance out of morbid curiosity.

This raises issues of should the author have been prohibited from using this setting. Where the activist right in storming the production, causing damage and injury.

I would say no to both accounts. The play should run, the Skih community should say that it is unrepresenative, some people would go to see the play, apparently it's nothing special and it probably have a short run. And most people wouldn't care particularly one way or another.

 

Here in the modern afluent western world generaly we pay lip service to our particular creeds. there are areas were sectarisum is rife and opions polarised. If these extreme opions are allowed out into the open where they can be subject of debate and challenged and hopeful exposed for what they are. and society will take a moderate line.

 

However I enjoy this forum because we don't have to debate these extremes, there are no personal attacks on the members, aside from a little gentle ribbing. which is delivered without vitriol (I hope). Our membership is multinational and whilst predominately would seem to be white middle aged and reasonably affluent, its not exclusivly so. we are here because of a common intrest in the V11 series Moto Guzzi.

I wouldn't ban off topic threads. Even the ones that are a bit close to the mark can be viewed several ways. It is difficult sometimes to know how any comment was intended even with useage of smilies. The are you Gay thread for example I felt was challenging homophobic behaviour through hummor and was posted in living up to the internet persona of a bigot. There are those who would see as stirring up hatered and even worse people whose opion whould be swayed.

On seeing it it did cause the suck through the teeth and I wasn't supprised to see it pulled. And I support Jaap that he felt it had crossed the line of his forum and he did what he deemed nessecary

 

I support your right to have your different opions to me and to voice them, I might not agree with them, but would ask that you air them in an appropriate manner in an appropriate place

[Steve G.]

As miffed as I get for having some of my entries cleared or deleted, I understand it probably has to be done. Considering this is an international forum, it is kind of understandable that local widely used stereotypes of different regions of the world, accurate or not, are likely to wound thin skinned readers of such stereotypes.

Considering what is going on on Mr. Enzos forum, I'll put up with the odd deleted entry. I'm not sure yet what all the name calling and swearing is all about over there, but have chosen to avoid the whole thing, as I may be the only one ever kicked off of Enzo's show, considering our previous engagements.

Ciao, Steve G.

[BrianG]

Enzo's site is occasionally entertaining, but of no technical relevance, so far as I can see.

[GuzzTim]

Martin..well said.

 

 

I personally enjoy this "moderated" forum for two reasons.

 

1) The forum members have a wealth of technical knowledge and a common love of Guzzi's that I find both informative and entertaining. Frankly we all have our daily grinds of work and family etc, and this is like our clubhouse where we can kick back and bulls**t about bikes without getting into political, social or moral issues. I can find all sorts of avenues for political discussion or fighting, its nice to leave that on the doorstep of this forum and focus on Guzzi's. I think its Jaap's active moderation that keeps this forum on track, keeps it light, and makes members feel welcome.

 

2) Given the lack of face to face contact its too easy to get the nasty comments, or as Janusz says, for the morons to identify themselves. I meet enough morons on a daily basis, I don't need to see them in the forum. I don't think moderation of this forum is the type of evil censorship that makes the liberatian in me cringe. I just view it as common courtesy/manners (call it what you will) that lets people of different strongly held views share a common interest in bikes... and books and music... oh, and Italian women.. ok, getting off topic there.

 

 

The interesting thing about the moderation or rules around this forum, is that I don't think its prevented anyone from expressing themselves.. During the US election, there were a few comments that identified some members political leanings, without it turning into a political forum. Truth always has a way of getting out despite restrictions. We can see hints of each other's opinions in the little comments/jokes without having it be a free for all.

 

 

Thanks for the soapbox.

 

Cheers, Tim

[bento]

i enjoy this gentleman forum

 

 

but this may be my favorite part...

[Bill Hagan]

Martin..well said.

I personally enjoy this "moderated" forum for two reasons. **** Cheers, Tim

39789[/snapback]

 

Heartily concur with Tim.

 

I have and hear quite enough political and similar opinions elsewhere--and seemingly everywhere--without finding them where I come, as I do with motorcycling generally, to escape that "real" world.

 

Buon Anno.

 

Bill

[gthyni]

The problem as I see it is that too often loud-mouths reserve

that right of free speach for themselves.

They should in there opinion should be allowed to say anything

(because they are always right) while others are not allowed

propose counter arguments.

 

Monolog is not democracy

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

Enzo's forum seems very angry sometimes. I made some comments on one of the threads and was attacked in a very childish way that has turned me off the forum ever since. If you don't know me don't tell me who I am! (you can tell me where to go and what to do when I get there - as if I would listen). I am still all for his forum but since it has nothing to offer me I have no intentions of visiting it in the near future.

Cheers Enzo. Carry on!

[Dirtybill]

It's got it's good and bad points.

 

I and some friends just got kicked off a dedicated Kawasaki forum.

 

A thread was started (by none of us) showing a pic of a ZX-10R with a frame crack. The discussion turned into what the owner has responsibility to check and what is and isnt covered under warranty.

 

While this was going on, a guy I bought frame sliders for my R1 sent me an email explaining that a buddy of his had the same crack in the same place on the same model of bike. Now, this guy manufactures frame sliders for some AMA superbike and supersport riders. He's probably in his late 40s and is by no means a blowhard. If he says his friend with the 10R did not abuse it, then I believe him.

Apparently the crack on this particular bike was traced to a frame bolt that wasn't torqued up correctly and the resulting vibes cracked the frame. That's what the dealer thinks anyway. I posted Eric's url so people could verify with him.

 

My, and some other friends posts were deleted. There was no swearing, porn or abuse in any of the deleted posts.

 

To me, this is not a "forum". I reminded the Admin to look up the definition of forum. I and some others were then banned.

 

If any of my bikes have problems that may occur to other owners then I want them to be made aware of it. Seems to me that a too many owners will not admit to problems with their bikes. I guess it's some kind of ego thing? But to get banned from a forum for it, is completely ridiculous.

 

I'm on another forum where the Admin was a writer for Performance Bikes and now is employed by RIDE magazine. He lets just about anything go on his forum, including slagging of his own employers Now there's someone with a sense of humour and I enjoy the freedom it provides.

[TX REDNECK (R.I.P.)]

The " Are you gay ? " thread was never intended as personal attack on anyboby. I posted 2 warnings & the people who were offended shouldn't have read it or better yet put me on your ignored users list

 

I might be paranoid but in this thread I have been called a moron, a bigot & and a idiot

 

Jason if you ever post anymore Redneck stuff I will use my " Freedom of Speech " to complain to Jaap & have your post deleted

 

Gay rights trumps freedom of speech anyday <_>

 

I'm glad we're all thinking alike

 

I AM THE FOOL ON THE HILL !!!

[Dirtybill]

I might be paranoid but in this thread I have been called a moron, a bigot & and a idiot

 

 

I AM THE FOOL ON THE HILL !!!

39840[/snapback]

 

I always take those terms as compliments

[jrt]

Jason if you ever post anymore Redneck stuff I will use my " Freedom of Speech " to complain to  Jaap & have your post deleted 

39840[/snapback]

 

Actually, I found the 'are you gay' thread kind of amusing. I didn't take it down, BTW, but I certainly would have if you posted that nekkid guy again. Oofta.

Tex, am I gonna have to throw out all my redneck jokes now? I have a good couple of Aggie jokes that I could substitute.....

 

Anyhoo, with regards to the thread title...lemme think about it and I'll post something.

J

[Guest BCRider]

I'm a moderator on another motorcycle board and this topic comes up often.

 

The bottom line was that it's easy to say put the idiots on the ignore list but in some cases the idiot population is so large or can grow on command at certain topics that the worthwhile folks just get ticked at all the nonsense and go away and don't come back. So a moderated board that forbids flaming, serious cursing and totally off topic posts is a good thing. It's more work but the result is a USEABLE forum rather than a bunch of weenies bitch talkin' to each other.

 

Not that a fine group of Guzzi riders would act like a bunch of teenagers outside a Mac's store with all the street shiznat talk they use.... at least I HOPE not...

 

To my thinking it should be limited ONLY to flaming, personal attacks or similar. No technical topic should be off limits like it would appear happened to Bill. Although the moderator in that case may have cut it out knowing what it would bring about as a reaction. But that doesn't explain the banning. That was just shoddy.