Guest Buck Posted January 6, 2003 Posted January 6, 2003 results: my bike (dyno break-in): 132 h.p. customer's bike (convertional break-in): 125 h.p. another interesting point is that my bike is much "crisper" in throttle response and has a smoother idle. evoluzione cyclesports Interesting, but not an "apples to apples" comparison. It wouldn't be out of the question to see up to a 5 hp difference in two of the same engine anyway. Exact state of tune, manufacturing tolerances, varying temp/air density changes between the two dyno tests if they weren't done at the same time, hours (miles) of use on each engine, all of these things can contribute to an inaccurate comparison. I have no doubt that the bike that was broken in on the dyno is going to loosen up faster than a bike that is ridden according to factory recommended break in procedures, and therefore will make more horsepower unless the non-dyno bike has many miles on it, perhaps 10,000 miles or more??? But the non-dyno bike will get there eventually too as it finishes it's break in, and it will get there while causing less overall wear and destruction to itself. While obtaining immediate maximum horsepower is nice, if it means I have to torture the engine during break in it's probably not going to last as long as it would if it were broken in properly. There's a legitimate reason why manufacturers establish break in procedures. I tend to believe they know more about their products than we do. Your mileage may vary!
evoluzione Posted January 6, 2003 Posted January 6, 2003 buck, unfortunately i'm not sure that i agree with all of your statements about engine wear & tear (based on a fair amount of personal experience) but i'm also not out to start any arguments - just wanted to give some personal experience. your point about the engines being different is valid (and the engines were dyno'd within an hour of each other) but unfortunately you can't do before/after testing in this type of test. all i was trying to show is that in this particular test the dyno break-in resulted in more power all else being equal (it also resulted in better leakdown numbers). i was in a position to actually test out this theory and thought i would share the results (not many people have the opportunity to buy two identical bikes and then break them in differently). if it helps, i'm an automotive engineer that spent many years working in the performance aftermarket (working with companies such as ford, ford svt & lotus). regards, ken zeller evoluzione cyclesports
Guest dkgross Posted January 6, 2003 Posted January 6, 2003 good points all. I don't have a dyno nearby, but, in re-reading MotorMan's stuff, I think I can reach a happy compromise. The main road by the shop will provide a nice long stretch where I can load the engine well without over-revving. If course, I'll have a good long chat with the guys at the shop and see how THEY want me to break it in
dlaing Posted January 6, 2003 Posted January 6, 2003 My advice: Agree with the guys in the shop And then do your plan I have been using the compromise strategy for much of my maintenance: My valve adjustments are half way between the Guzzi World numbers and the RaceCo numbers. Works fine. My motor oil is Semi-Synthetic Motorcycle oil changed every 3000 miles. Works fine. But I am leaning towards Full Synthetic Motorcycle every 6000 miles. Especially since it is now broken in. For tires I think most of us agree that Sport/Touring is the way to go. For Mufflers I want some where between stock and annoying. For HP performance I want some where between Race and Stock. Drat I am a middle of the Roader!
Guest Buck Posted January 6, 2003 Posted January 6, 2003 buck, unfortunately i'm not sure that i agree with all of your statements about engine wear & tear (based on a fair amount of personal experience) but i'm also not out to start any arguments - just wanted to give some personal experience. unfortunately you can't do before/after testing in this type of test. It also resulted in better leakdown numbers if it helps, i'm an automotive engineer that spent many years working in the performance aftermarket (working with companies such as ford, ford svt & lotus). No arguments here, I was just trying to point out some of the variables that can interfere or skew the results when comparing two different machines. As you said the problem is you can't do before/after testing. However, I am curious if you checked leakdown before either bike was put on the road (or the dyno) and then compared results afterwards? What about long term wear? How does one quantify the results of the dyno break-in vs proper break in and equate it to longevity? Unfortunately there's not really any way to measure that, because again there are too many variables. I tend to believe the mountains of evidence that suggest engines that spend more of their useable life under high stress wear more quickly than engines subjected to normal stresses, assuming both engines receive all of their needed maintenance. Wouldn't it stand to reason those principles apply to break in also? BTW, I wouldn't question your credentials but it's nice that you mention them. I enjoy discussing things like this with knowledgeable people as there's a chance I might learn something!
Guest dkgross Posted January 6, 2003 Posted January 6, 2003 Trust me..I don't plan to 'stress' the engine THAT much :>) I, too, really enjoy learning stuff from everyone here. Since I'm pretty much mechanicaly inept, I just assume everyone else here can teach me something
al_roethlisberger Posted January 6, 2003 Posted January 6, 2003 I think Buck summed-it-up nicely with: The first 100 miles are pretty critical, the next 100 miles still near critical. After that it doesn't matter as much if you "over-rev" a little bit, but keep in mind that engines don't incur damage because you followed the factory recommended break-in procedure. They do sometimes incur damage if you don't follow the factory recommendations. Just don't get too carried away al
Guest dkgross Posted January 6, 2003 Posted January 6, 2003 yup. Pretty sure it'll be easy to keep it under 5000 rpm and still be able to do some little spurts to let the engine work. and I still change the oil after about 25 miles, just because now if only those STUPID Union Truck Drivers would have delivered it last week when they PROMISED they would, instead of turning around and heading home at 5pm. ARGH. It'll be here tomorrow. I should be able to get it on saturday. At least the weather in Seattle is insanely nice for this time of year (48 and sunny).
Orson Posted January 7, 2003 Posted January 7, 2003 Heh...I rode my Tenni off the showroom floor in Parma, Italy, over the Alps to the UK, with a stop in Mandello for my 1500 KM oil change. Guess I didn't get many heat cycles that way Still seems to run fine. Living in Saudi with my bike in Europe just doesn't leave any time for experimenting Get on yer bike and ride! © Freddie Mercury 1980something
Guest dkgross Posted January 8, 2003 Posted January 8, 2003 well..I sent the link to MotoMan's website to Dave at Moto International... ...this sums it up: > Dave: > > Interesting but not a factor on your bike, as you see, you never hone these > cylinders. The Nikasil-plated bores have etched-in grooves for break-in. > They never go away and you couldn't redo them if you wanted to. So really, I > say, contrary to the article, just ride the thing. > > Ciao, > > Dave Richardson > Moto International
Guest jeremy Posted January 9, 2003 Posted January 9, 2003 I also used to be automotive engineer with experiance in building race and non race motors using fuel injection, superchargers, ethanol, methanol, diesel, and propane, I am also ASE master certified and chrysler gold certified and now am a manufacturing engineer. belive it or not I still and will allways belive in break it in how your going to drive it. the one thing that I do recommend is don't take a fresh motor, start it, and shut it off right away. If you buy a new mass produced engine where everything may not quite be to blue print specs then warm the damn thing up and put a couple hundered miles on it, everything will heat and seat uniformly and will settle in better with the least distortion. FWIW this is what I've found works the best for me with all types of engines. cheers
cgalardi Posted August 15, 2003 Posted August 15, 2003 Hello, New to the forum and on the verge of purchasing an '02 Lemans. Should I be concerned about making it's maiden voyage an ~600 mile round trip, mostly on state highways at speeds of 60-70 mph? Chris in Omaha
Guest russ Posted August 15, 2003 Posted August 15, 2003 I wouldn't worry about it. Just keep it under 5k for the first 500 miles and then under 6k for the next 500. Make sure the dealer removes the charcoal cannister to avoid vapor lock/overflow and be sure to change your oil when you get back. On these bikes the engine is typicaklly the least likely to give problems.
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