Throttlemeister

[Janusz]

It DOES work in practice at least for me.

 

Few extra comments:

 

1 -you have to enlarge the little movable barrel with some aluminum foil or even scotch tape (thats what I did) in order to increase the range of the throttle movement up to the designed magnitude. It will help your cold starting process by the way.

 

2 - the return spring is strong, true, but in time the "choke" lever will stiffen unless you grease it unnecessarily. Then you'll see how well this poor man cruise control works - its like a hand gas on old Italian cars. True, you will not go much faster then 100 km/hr in top gear but how fast you really want to go with your hands off the bar?

[al_roethlisberger]

Janus,

 

In theory this certainly could hold the throttle open enough to work as you describe.

 

But to address your two points, and my concerns:

 

- Given that this is designed to be a cold-start enricher, I personally don't want to modify it too extensively to do something it wasn't designed to do. I especially would be concerned of my "ham fisting" this newly modified enricher to drive my engine to over 3k+ RPM during warm-up because I've enlarged the pulley. Perhaps this would be a minor issue, especially if care was taken to only partially engage the enricher. But I can see where I'd have to now very carefully fine-adjust it to get it into the correct RPM range for warm-up, or as a "cruise control".

 

Keep in mind that good "throttle-locks" just barely hold the throttle right where you leave them. If one were to use this method, you'd have to completely ignore the throttle and use the enricher to get to the correct RPM, and/or try to match RPM. This could be difficult, and seems harder than just using something like the Throttlemeister or Vista-Cruise type solutions.

 

Again, perhaps no big deal, but just a concern.

 

- Another issue *may be* running the bike too rich/lean by relying on the enricher function instead of the primary throttle. I haven't looked into the throttle body/linkage to verify this. But before going this route, I would suggest doing some homework on how the enricher may or may not open the butterfly differently than the primary throttle. If it is different enough, you will see significant performance, mileage, and potential reliability(i.e. if is consistently run more rich("choked") than the standard throttle). Dunno, but something to research.

 

If this concern is founded, and one ran for many hours/miles with this method, you could see unsatisfactory results over time.

 

- I'm not sure that one could safely modify the enricher's range(without sacrificing fine control) to be able to set it at a high enough RPM/speed. 100kph(~62mph) would not be sufficient for me. Where this would be most beneficial for me would be around 60-90mph(~100-130kph), where I am cruising on a loooong boring freeway.

 

As clarification, when using a throttle-lock/cruise-control, I don't take my hands off of the bar, except maybe to "shake out" numbness/tingles here and there for a minute. This offers the benefit of letting my throttle-hand relax and not have to "hold" the throttle. That makes a big difference in fatigue.

 

So, bottom line 100kph would not be sufficient for me, although it may be for others.

 

- I would also have some concerns about basic safety if using the enricher versus a "throttle-lock". If in an urgent situation, and you have to react quickly.... your muscle-memory is going to send your right hand to the throttle in a panic, not to the "choke"

 

 

Anyway, I think this is certainly an interesting idea... and offers some potential.

 

But just some things to think about. Maybe someone can do some testing/investigation, especially into the issues around the differences between the regular throttle aparatus. Depending on one's needs and the results of further investigation, this may be a good inexpensive alternative.

 

Anyway... a little pricey true, but I shooooor do like my new Throttlemeisters

 

al

[Guest JohnInNH]

Driving with the fuel enrichener on for long periods of time will damage your motor. Nothing is said in the V-11 owners manual, but I think my BMW and my Honda manuals did. Some one want to check?

 

Thanks to Al, my Throttlemeister bar ends friction lock will be here shortly.

 

THANK YOU Mr. Roethisberger!

 

I talked to Throttlemeister about compatibility with the Verlicchi clip ons. When I get the clip ons I will measure them and give the information to Throttlemeister and get a match. Then MGCycles can add the info to their web page to let us V-11 folks which ones to order.

 

 

[Janusz]

Listen guys:

 

THIS IS NOT ANY ENRICHER BUT JUST A THROTTLE STOP.

 

What it means is that ALL it does is it just bumps your throttle alittle. Exactly like if you just crack your throttle with your right hand. We do not have carbs there therefore this is exactly what I said. All you need is just look at it again and then you'll see.

 

Sorry for being so forcefull, but I hate to repeat myself over and over.

[Guest JohnInNH]

Listen guys:

 

THIS IS NOT ANY ENRICHER BUT JUST A THROTTLE STOP.

 

Sorry for being so forcefull, but I hate to repeat myself over and over.

 

Repeating yourself? Where? I have not seen (in this thread anyway) you ever saying the Choke is JUST an throttle stop. Lighten up dude

 

I was told it was an "enriching circuit" by the dealer. If it is true and it is JUST a throttle stop, no wonder I'm having problems starting the bike when cold!

 

My "choke" has no effect on rpm unless HELD all the way open. Try holding the Choke wide open and pulling the clutch in at the same time!

 

Le Mans, 3 hands needed for starting on cold days? Hummm.

 

I have always used the throttle (right hand) to slightly open the fuel while starting when cold..

 

How the hell am I supposed to enrichen/choke EFI *IF* the choke lever is JUST a throttle stop? I'm perplexed

 

I'm going to go check and see if it runs different when warm and "choked".

 

Anyone know for sure?

[Janusz]

We all DO have a poor man's throttle lock on our bikes - the factory "choke". Since it is nothing more then a throttle stop (fuel injection, right?) it may be successfully used for this other purpose.

Here, DUDE, the previous page.

 

You are one more victim of "knowledgable" dealers.

 

You do not need "three hands" to start your bike. All you need is to modify the barrel like I explained above (try to find it).

 

Again, you do not "enrichen" fuel injection by any mechanical means. The computer (ECU) varies the duration of the injection as per various sensors and you do not have a direct control over it. It is all well explained in yours Owners Manual.

[al_roethlisberger]

OK... OK ......enrichment, choke... semantics to some degree.

 

I did not definitively say that the "choke-enricher-throttle-stop-thingee" *is* a choke/enricher. However, I did say that someone should probably put some time into making *certain* that it is or is not before using it as a throttle-lock/cruise-control. Better safe than sorry, and I am not currently convinced.

 

Keep in mind that part of a choke/enrichment "circuit" ala-cabueration is to change or "choke" the air-charge as well. So even though we don't have carbs, it is "possible" that the "enricher-thingee" may be opening the butterfly in the throttle-body at a different rate than the actual throttle for a given throttle position, but not sending standard info to the TPS to change the fuel-injection. And since this is an open EFI with no feedback via an O2 sensor, the EFI wouldn't know any difference.... and not vary/change the injection for that given throttle position.

 

Now, this is all speculation on my part... and please keep this in mind. I don't mean to create any disagreement.

 

However, again, I simply state "better safe than sorry" as running your engine at speed either in a too lean or rich environment will be at least detrimental to your efficiency, and at worst damage your engine.

 

If this is simply a throttle-stop, it does seem odd that the linkage, etc, is completely separate from the throttle system. It makes one wonder, which I do.

 

So, it probably makes little sense to continue to dispute this via text. I'll look at mine a bit, and perhaps someone else in the know can comment.

 

As I mentioned, good suggestion Janus, but for those interested in investigating this solution... you may want to double-check the function of the "choke" just in case, as I am not sure.

 

When I have the time and opportunity, I will try to look into it more as well

 

al

[Guest Hank]

I haven't been following this thread until now. Unfortunately my bike is in the shop now so I can't go verify this, but I think the "choke" opens only the thottle on one side (the one with the tps). If this is so it would fool the computer into thinking both sides are open and thereby increase the fuel supply. Since the other throttle is still shut that side would be richer for starting. Once one cylinder is up an running the other should start easily. Someone who has access to their bike can verify this for me. It may not be the case, but it would be a simple way of doing it.

 

Hank

[al_roethlisberger]

...I had thought about this as well, but a quick inspection shows a link between both throttle-bodies. I believe they both open equally.... the linkages at least both move in unison.

 

al

[al_roethlisberger]

BTW, a link to some photos of the Throttlemeister installed on my LeMans:

 

Al's Yahoo Briefcase with photos of the Throttemeister installed....

 

UPDATE:

 

Just took my longest ride today at freeway speeds, and these things are *fantastic* damping the vibes! I literally couldn't hardly feel any vibrations at any RPM, except just enough to know the engine was running. It was far less vibration than on my old '89 FJ1200 by comparison, and no comparison to the OEM bar-ends.

 

I tell ya, just for the vibration damping alone, these guys are a serious "thumbs up"... and oh yeah, then there's the "cruise control"

 

 

al

[Guest Scura Owner]

The lever simply adjusts a secondary throttle stop. There are two possible ways to make adjustments to it. In addition to the cable end adjustment/cable length, there is a barrel adjustment. Ideally, the stop should be out of the way when closed, and the barrel should be adjusted to give 3000 rpm when on full. On my bike, because of spring tension, the lever must be held down while holding the clutch. The spring can be modified by cutting it down.

[Guest JohnInNH]

Again, you do not "enrichen" fuel injection by any mechanical means. The computer (ECU) varies the duration of the injection as per various sensors and you do not have a direct control over it. It is all well explained in yours Owners Manual.

Page 132 in my owners manual has a brief description of the "Starting phase"

 

Quote from V11 Le Mans + V11 Sport Owners Manual

 

[start quote]

 

"the 15m I.A.W. unit feeds the fuel pump for a few time [translation goof] and detects the throttle angle and the temp of the engine.

 

After starting the engine, the unit receives the revolution and phase signals, which allow it to control the injection and the ignition.

 

To make the starting phase easy, an enrichment of the main quantity, upon the oil temp, is performed. After the starting phase, the unit begins the check of the advance."

 

[end quote]

 

This is well explained? I disagree. There is no discussion of the "choke", and how it effects cold starting, and it's interrelationship, if any.

 

I *think* Hank has the explanation. The imbalance manually causing a richer fuel air mix above and beyond the ECU temperature related fuel air map. This, I believe, is the manual *user* input for cold weather starting.

 

I'm still trying to get a system down for cold starting. My opening the throttle 1/16th while pressing the start button does not work (the best way on my 96 1100i).

 

I still find it difficult to start from cold. It takes me 3-5 times to get it to start due to it being to lean for the conditions. No danger of flooding it for me!

 

What works the best for you?

 

 

With my 96 Cali 1100i 1/4 turn on the idle mix screw on the ECU fixed it! started 1st or second time.

 

Al.... nice pics! Can't wait for mine to arrive!

[Frank]

Guys,

 

The "choke" lever is not a choke (decreasing the bore of the throttle body) or a start enrichener (opens a separate circuit in the carb to allow a richer mixture) but simply a variable throttle stop. There is no internal linkage apparent on the set up or in the parts book I have. So, it could very well be used as a cruise control if the lever would actually stay where it is put. As to starting, the ECU reads engine temperature and uses a different map to enrichen the mixture when the engine is cold. From my experience with FI, many models seem to work best without any throttle opening, relying on the map to get the mixture right.

 

Frank

[al_roethlisberger]

Well after posting this question to the MGCL list, the replies seem to support a "little of both"

 

According to the consensus, and I waited until I had about 10 replies, the "choke-thing" is simply a throttle-stop as Janus pointed out. It does nothing to change the fuel-mixture directly, nor affect air-charge, or interact any differently with the TPS or ECU. The throttle is simply held open at the appropriate setting, and the ECU goes through it's "cold start" map until the engine warms up, and then you'll probably notice your RPM jump from about 1.5k to 2-3k.

 

The consensus also seemed that although you could conceivably use it for a "cruise control" this would require modifying the cable "ramp" to advance the throttle enough to achieve highway RPM/speeds(which Janus also pointed out), or be content with 2-4k RPM under the best circumstances(Stock, mine only goes to about 2.5k when warm on the "choke").

 

Some respondents did say that they occasionally use the "choke" as a temporary "cruise control" on their bikes for short runs, and it is usually in that 4k RPM max range. But most recommended or commented that for regular use, one might want to consider something like the Throttlemeister.

 

...which BTW, still amazes me regarding the vibe damping!

 

 

Again, thanks for the suggestion Janus. I just wanted to clarify any risks before this became a recommendation, as I had my doubts. ...which are now assuaged

 

al

[Janusz]

I might as well throw in a tip for the bar vibration: The absolutely best remedy in my experience is installation of bar end mirrors, and specifically Japanese Napoleon brand since they are on the long stalks and pretty heavy.

 

You kill two birds with one stone since these mirrors not only are fully functional but also add esthetically to the bike, especially non faired one like V11S or Scura.