V11S Fuel Filter Alternative

[docc]

Interesting. I've just played this same filter game.

 

After finding the threaded connectors were not for the V11LM/S I fitted the Nissan application and began to research.

 

I found extremely helpful technical assistance from a fellow (motorcyclist) at Pureoil (Purolator filters). He was very patient with my series of e-mails and provided me with dimensioned diagrams and the following technical specifications:

 

The filters do all, generally, filter 7-11 microns (Guzzi calls for 10 microns) and are tested at 4 bar (58 psi). Guzzi FI runs 3 bar +/- 0.2 (41 - 46 psi). So, filtration and pressure should be covered.

 

This brings us to the issues of surface area and flow rate. The "Nissan" filter ( Purolator F43178) has 630cm2 surface area and flows 24 gallons per hour (the OEM Weber has 1200 cm2 and probably flows more like 45 gph). Remember that the closed loop FI flows unused fuel back to the tank through the pressure adjuster on the right side of the tank so that the majority of fuel flowed is not injected but returned.

 

If you fit the "Nissan" filter it is much shorter and requires a longer fuel line from the pump. In searching for a longer filter for increased flow and surface area I found the following alternatives (again, Purolator numbers):

 

F54718 used on Dodge Dakota V6/V8 is longer and has a bracket to be removed. More expensive due to the bracket ($11US)

 

F67221 is LAZER welded to hold 300 psi, flows 45 gph and has 580 cm2 surface area. It is 5 3/4 inches long and should be the closest in overall dimension to the Weber. I'm not sure what its application is but I will check and post back. (Around $8 compared to the Weber from Guzzi at $33US).

 

 

The F67221 is a better choice than the"Nissan" (F43178) due to its strength and dimension (may still require a longer fuel line). They'll probably both work just fine.

 

Realize that less surface area means shorter service interval. Guzzi says 12000miles so a 6000 mile interval is extremely conservative for the smaller filter.

 

 

 

If you made it this far on this post, congatulations, you are now a 'certifiable' techno-head!

 

 

 

 

[dlaing]

Thanks Doc!

My original Weber filter appeared to have failed after less than 18,000 miles. Following the logic of media area comparison, the Nissan filter could fail after less than 9000 miles.

After my experiences trying to fit it yesterday, I was feeling like a certifiable DoDo Head!

Here are the dimensions of the F67221 from Wix part 33310 which cross refs a 2000 Honda Passport and a 2000 Isuzu Rodeo and of course other years, makes and models.

Height 5.565"

OD 2.175"

inlet and outlet are 5/16" which is equivalent to 8mm, according to hose markings...

 

The Pathfinder is listed at:

Height 4.803

OD 2.205

8mm

 

I was thinking of trying this one that fits '93 Mazda 323SE. If it does not fit, I can put it on my mother''s car

Wix33295

It's dimensions are:

Height 6.732

OD 2.795

The inlet and outlet are bent which may be a plus or a minus.

 

I will compare the three at the store and go from there...

[docc]

Just returned from the local parts haus,sitting on a case of Pennzoil reding the Prolator application charts. I gotta getta life!

 

The welded filter is, as you say, for IsuZu. All '01 and '02 as well as Trooper '92 to '02. It is a very stout looking device , about an inch shorter than the Weber but longer than the Nissan application which is crimped onto a plastic end. The welded filter appeals to me as I have observed any number of vibration related failures on the Sport. I'd rather not see one with fuel pressure behind it!

 

At $7US I think I can afford to change it every 6000 miles.

 

With the filter piggy-backed to the frame the straight connectios look to be the way to go.

[al_roethlisberger]

Well, I tell ya.. once you guys get it 100% figured out, summarize your findings and I'll put in the FAQ section

 

Good work fellas....

 

[dlaing]

I went to Pep Boys today, they probably had enough fittings to make the Napa 3008 work, but I had my mind set on getting one of the other filters. Perhaps the 3008 would be the way to go if you get ss or kevlar braided lines with banjo fittings. But since the fuel filter would be the only thing with the banjo fittings, it would probably be a wasted endeavour.

I compared the three filters.

The Mazda filter may not have fit as the bends went the wrong ways and it was $25.

The Nissan filter would have been ok, but it was a little cheaper looking even though it cost $13.99.

The Isuzu filter won hands down!

Stout looking stainless steel. Just a little smaller than the Weber. The one I got was the

F67221 by Purolator. Cost, $8.99 US

Thanks again Docc!

I tried to find the better hose clamps, but they were out of the ones for 5/16"id.

Will try another Pep Boys tomorrow.

Today, went a little better than yesterday. I only spilled gas on my jeans and not on my face.

I tried to change the angle of the hose coming out of the tank so that it would angle away from the cylinder head, but ended up with it leaking...Will deal with that tomorrow.

Noted that that hose has fake ss braiding....may deal with that tomorrow....

Stripped one of the hose clamp gears.....Will deal with that tomorrow.

Atleast I got all the high pressure hose replaced and reduced the excess emission lines.

Also, routed some of the lines better than how they were before.

Noted that I lost one bolt holding on the airbox.

Perhaps that is why FBF enclosed three extra allen head screws....

The banjo bolts with the oil breathers attached to the frame were loose enough to seep oil, so I tightened them.

With the airbox temporarily out of the way, I was able to put a bit more preload on that piece of sh^t S@chs Shock absorber. It is not really that bad, but it is under sprung. With the preload set so that there was zero bike weight only sag, my added weight would make it sag more than an inch. So, I cranked it a few turns, and got it to under 3/4 total sag. Will see how it works.

Also picked up a bike lift at Kragen Auto Parts for $59.00!!! +tax

So, maybe I can replace the shock myself.

[hgravelpha@aol.com]

If anybody on this site need any fittings (nuts, bolts, washers, clamps, and etc) at cost, please don't hesitate to contact me. I can buy these items at cost. See mcmaster.com for merchandise.

[docc]

I figured extra fittings would translate to extra places to leak. At that pressure the stuff could atomize through a small leak and form an external combustion engine between your knees!

 

David, did you still have to lengthen the fuel line for the IsuZu filter? If so, how much, just an inch?

[dlaing]

I had to replace the hoses anyway, so I did not measure.

I can't even remember if the filter was all the forward or all the way back in the clamp.

I think I could have used the original hosing, but am not sure.

The hose from the filter to the pump is easy to replace. the other hoses require removing the airbox. Not too big a deal...

[Guest geezerx]

I did the same thing. Installed a Bosch fuel filter (which is slightly shorter than the original) to fit the rearward line and then replaced the frontward line so as to have a single line from filter to pump. I could have coupled the original front line to the filter while the tank was off but it looked like there would have then been clearance issues with the front of the tank when installing same.

 

Also, the filter is slightly smaller in diameter than the original so I gave it a couple of wraps of 200MPH NASCAR ductape.

[dlaing]

Okay,

Here is a rough copy of a "How to change your fuel filter".

Please correct or add your thoughts, We will let Al edit it.

Thanks Al!

 

1)GO SHOPPING!

 

A. FUEL FILTER

Recommended:

Purolator F67221, Wix part 33310, Fram G4777, and Napa Gold 3310, which cross reference Honda Passports, Isuzu Rodeos, and Isuzu Troopers after 1992.

Height 5.565"

OD 2.175"

inlet and outlet are 5/16" (8mm).

Alternatives are the Purolator F43178, WIX 33023, Fram G-7404, and Napa Gold 3023,

Which all cross reference the more recent years of the Nissan Pathfinder:

Height 4.803

OD 2.205

inlet and outlet are 5/16"(8mm)

 

B. FUEL INJECTION LINE (optional but recommended)

About 6' (2 Meters) 5/16" (8mm) High Quality Fuel injection line.

You should have plenty left over.

 

C. FUEL INJECTION HOSE CLAMPS (optional but recommended)

Ask for ones that are less likely to damage the hose.

 

D. or

But seriously DO NOT SMOKE while taking off fuel lines.

 

2.REMOVE THE FUEL TANK

Do yourself a favor and run the tank close to empty before trying to lift the tank off.

Also, wear eye protection to protect from splashing gasoline as the hoses are removed.

There may still be pressurized fuel in the hoses.

 

A. Remove Seat

 

B. Remove Bolt holding down tank.

 

C. Put a full closed beer can between tank and frame to hold the tank in a position that will allow better access to the hose clamps.

 

D. Disconnect two lines on the right side of the bike. Look for the hose clamps. One line is a vent line and the other goes from the pressure regulator to the right fuel injector. Some may have removed the vent line. (NOT recommended) There may also be a second smaller vent line that will pop off on it own.

 

E. Disconnect the fuel line going from the petcock to the fuel pump,

the wire connector for the wires going to the petcock (if you have the electric type),

and the wire connector for the wires going to the fuel level warning sensor.

 

F. Remove Beer Can and take a break.

 

G. Remove the tank.

Nothing should have to be forced.

Lift the rear a few inches, grab the front and carry the tank an inch or two to the rear and then lift the front of the tank up and bring the tank forward and up and off.

 

H. Set down where it will not get damaged.

 

3. REMOVE THE FUEL FILTER

 

4. REPLACE THE FUEL LINES AND HOSE CLAMPS(optional but recommended)

A. The line going from the pump to the filter is the most critical as it endures the highest pressures.

The other lines are less accessible and require removing the airbox.

B. Remove the airbox. It is held by one screw on the top, two down low towards the rear, and it must be disconnected from the throttle bodies.

Reinstall the airbox, connect the throttle bodies first, rear screws, and finally the top screw.

C. routing of the hoses is critical.

 

5. INSTALL THE NEW FILTER

Be sure to get the arrow pointed in the correct direction of flow, from the fuel pump, through the filter, and to the fuel injectors.

 

6. Put the tank back on, lower rear first, but not all the way, than lower front onto rubber mounts, then lower rear all the way and make sure nothing got crushed.

Raise the rear of tank enough to get access to the hoses. If you are out of beer, space it with an empty can of carb spray or whatever.

 

7. Re-connect two wire connectors on left and the fuel line from the petcock to the pump.

 

8. Reconnect two lines on right.

Be sure to put the vent lines together and the high pressure lines together.

The high pressure line on the right runs from the right fuel injector to the pressure control valve on the right side of the tank.

 

9. Double check that fuel lines are tight and then start up the engine and look for leaks.

You may want to prime the pump by turning the key on and off maybe three times before pressing the starter. Holding the starter down for too long is a bad idea.

give the starter a few seconds between each start attempt.

Check for leaks, go for a short ride, check for leaks.

 

10.

[Guest Jaap]

Well done David, excellent info. Al, you're next!

[callison]

I get my fuel line down at my friendly local BMW motorcycle dealer. I'm fairly certain that it is 8mm. The labeling on the chunk I have left in the garage is too faint to read, but the I.D. is 7.2mm, which goes well with the 8mm fitting size. I get the fuel line hose clamps from the same source. They have a smooth inner surface without the threads of the screw contacting the hose. Important on a pressurized fuel line.