Oil Consumption

[Guest Nogbad]

Nogbad, I have a Pal with an '03 LeMans that has exactly the same symptoms, and the same frustration.  We're going to drop the sump to check the clearance between the oil pickup and the bottom of the sump.  If it looks excessive, the assumption would be that it needs to be adjusted lower.  But of course getting it too low could be dangerous, too.

 

Anyone know what this clearance should be?

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Ratchet, it would be hard to see how some bikes could have a smaller clearance than others, given that the pickup should be a standard shape and size. I can't see that some pickups could be shorter than others. If the pickup pipe has a strainer welded to the end, I wonder if there is a leak at the attachment point. This would let air into the oil circuit should the level fall below the top of the strainer.

 

Anyway, I plan to have the sump off for an oil change in another 1000 miles and meanwhile I shall keep the oil topped up and bugger the consumption.

 

I am seriously tempted to swap it for a Buell Firebolt after a spur of the moment test ride yesterday......

[Guest Nogbad]

So after determining that the level was not falling rapidly after the half way point was reached, I went off and did another 600 miles.

 

I went out yesterday, and accelerated moderately hard (not "hard charging" though) and the oil light flickered on me.

 

On checking the oil, I find it is very slightly below half way between the top and bottom marks on the stupid dipstick, so a very small amount has been used on my long trip.

 

This is the question: If the oil gets used rapidly until the level is half way down the dipstick, but at just below half way the pickup is easy to expose, how am I to manage oil consumption? Clearly the level needs to be well above the half way mark to protect the engine from spirited riding, but at this level oil is ejected / burnt or whatever happens to it. Maybe it vanishes into a parallel universe populated by 4 dimensional Luigis.

 

I thought the engine was supposed to be the one strong point of the V11 and trouble free!

[Guest ratchethack]

Nogbad, I have a Pal with an '03 LeMans that has exactly the same symptoms, and the same frustration. We're going to drop the sump to check the clearance between the oil pickup and the bottom of the sump. If it looks excessive, the assumption would be that it needs to be adjusted lower. But of course getting it too low could be dangerous, too.

 

Anyone know what this clearance should be?

[Guest Nogbad]

Looking in the manual it appears that the pickup is in the bottom of the pan, so it's hard to see how bikes can vary in their response to low level.

[belfastguzzi]

I've just returned from the Erin Rally this evening. Oil was 'pretty full' to start – it's hard to be accurate with the dipstick. Rode to the bottom of Ireland, round a bit and back up again: 830 miles. On the way home, accelerating hard from standstill, the oil light flashed on. :!: Checked the oil when I got home. Somewhere between half and full – it's hard to be accurate with the dipstick.

 

Same as you.

 

Looks like I better carry oil on trips over a couple of hundred miles and keep it filled up to top.

 

(On subject of oil: also had layer of oil round one side of back tyre for whole trip, as drive box seal – I presume – went at the start of the journey. Gave me something to think about on right hand corners )

[Guest Nogbad]

This is not good.

 

Have you any familiarity with these "deep V" sump conversions? The flat shallow sump as standard can't be a good design. Half fill an oven tray with water and attempt to carry it across the kitchen and you'll see what I mean.

[belfastguzzi]

Before the warning-light incident, I was thinking about the 'windage' plate or whatever it's called, as I was thinking about what the oil was doing during lots of sustained 100mph sections on the way home. I was also thinking how someone, Pete Roper possibly, had said that by the time the warning light comes on it's already too late, the damage is done. Then the warning light came on

 

Deep sump, windage tray, keep topping up the oil ??

[Guest Nogbad]

Before the warning-light incident, I was thinking about the 'windage' plate or whatever it's called, as I was thinking about what the oil was doing during lots of sustained 100mph sections on the way home. I was also thinking how someone, Pete Roper possibly, had said that by the time the warning light comes on it's already too late, the damage is done. Then the warning light came on

 

Deep sump, windage tray, keep topping up the oil  ??

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Funny, I was doing a lot of high speed work too, I did about 600 miles in all, but set off with the oil already at least down 1/3 from the top mark. If you are doing steady speeds oil surge uncovering the pickup shouldn't be a problem, it's acceleration.

 

On the alleged "damage"; its a pressure switch, and a momentary flicker is unlikely to matter if it isn't repeated too often. There would still be plenty of oil in the bearings.

 

Hope I don't start losing drive box seals and stuff like that. I want a bike to ride, not to take apart or worse, pay someone else to take apart. I'm fickle and disloyal with my machinery and it doesn't take much to make me try another bike....

[belfastguzzi]

There would still be plenty of oil in the bearings.

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That's what I was thinking/hoping, so, we'll believe it to be true.

 

 

make me try another bike....

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Mr Baldini got a try on the 1100 Breva at rally. Apparently it's a great bike. Pity it's as ugly as sin. I think I'd rather look down on a flickering oil pressure light than the Breva's ever-expanding-fueltank/plastic thing and the spacehopper ear handlebars. And what will it be like in 20 year's time, sitting at the Erin rally with your classic old Breva, a multi-meter and a penknife trying to bypass the fizzled-out whizzy electronic start-up diagnostics so that you can get the old crate home?

 

Anyway, back to oil-levels. Baldini likes to keep topped-up. But don't mention it. Shhh..

[Anthro]

Nogbad,

 

I do not know what it may be causing the oil lost, if the bike is not leaking, is must be burning it... not enough for you to see it, but as soon as the pressure decreases the rate of burnig would slow down to make the diagnotic more confusing...

 

In general if you add a bit of Molikote (or stop smoke, honey like fluidity) just ensure that good stuff is at the inner walls of the engine things may improve between oil changes.

 

I would not add the full recomended amount unless your engine needs big time fixing...

 

I guess for the 3 liter V11 capacity I'll add 20 cc of this product and see what happen... (no too much more, we do not want the oil pressure to rise too much).

 

Enjoy your MG...

[Guest Nogbad]

Personally, I think when the oil is at the high level there is a lot of splash and oil spray that ends up getting sucked down the PCV and burnt. When the level falls a bit, this happens less and the consumption stabilises. That's my theory.

 

The level in the sump would not affect oil delivery pressure provided the pickup was always submerged, so this can't explain the effect.

 

On a pleasant note the V11 passed its MOT test this morning.

[jrt]

Older Guzzi's tended to find their own oil level. There are Eldo's that run fine while full up on oil, and others that pump oil out until they are half full. Fill the latter up again and it will pump it right back out. This is particularly exacerbated by high speed runs. I wonder if something like that is going on here. If so, let it find it's own oil level- it'll be fine.

Second (more expensive) thought is that your valve stems are wearing prematurely. Carl posted awhile back about having soft stems (don't take it personally Carl) in his Sporti, so you might be seeing something of that.

[Guest Nogbad]

Older Guzzi's tended to find their own oil level.  There are Eldo's that run fine while full up on oil, and others that pump oil out until they are half full.  Fill the latter up again and it will pump it right back out.  This is particularly exacerbated by high speed runs. I wonder if something like that is going on here.  If so, let it find it's own oil level- it'll be fine.

Second (more expensive) thought is that your valve stems are wearing prematurely.  Carl posted awhile back about having soft stems (don't take it personally Carl) in his Sporti, so you might be seeing something of that.

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It isn't smoking, and there is no evidence of heavy deposits on the plugs. If it were the valve stems I would expect the oil level to continue dropping, yet it doesn't. The problem belfast and I seem to have is that the level it finds for itself is too low to prevent oil pump inlet becoming uncovered momentarily during acceleration.

[big J]

Probably a stupid question,but how do you check the oil level? I run the bike for a few minutes and check it then,with the oil pumped round. If it's low, I top it up. I'd rather buy oil than rings and shells.

[Guest Barnapkin]

I'll be even dumber. Should the oil be checked on the side stand, or standing straight up? The V11 OM does not stipulate. Most bikes that have a "sight glass" are held upright. SHhold the "dip" stick be leaning or upright??