03 scura 498

[davidmcm]

Disappointedly I am selling my Scura, but before I do, I am determined to get the better of it and look to you all for help and assistance.

1: It vibrates like a cheap motel bed, how do you get rid of this? (the carbs are balanced to within a trillionth of their lives)

2: It wobbles like a birthday jelly, how do you overcome this? (I have fiddled with the settings with the meticulousness of a surgeon)

3: It has a spot flatter than a pancake at 5000rpm, can this be eradicated? (I can't bring myself to spend another washer on this outrageous thing)

4: Bridgestone exert much more pressure on their tyres than the lily-livered Guzzi manual, which is right? (I have tried both obviously, but what do you do)

Is it just me or do you all have rose tinted glasses on?

If this is the best Guzzi can do after 3500years of recorded civilised thinking then I am a carrot.

David

[al_roethlisberger]

Hi David,

 

...sorry to hear you are letting the bike go, although I'm sure someone else who wants a Scura will be elated

 

 

As far as the problems you describe, under normal circumstances, the answer is "yes" to all of your issues. But without more specific info, I would say that it hard to offer even the most generic of advice

 

 

However, when I first read your post, I though: "wow, a Scura for 498 pounds? What a deal"

 

 

al

 

 

P.S.

 

I don't have moderator access to this sub-forum, so we might want to have this post moved to the appropriate section.

[dbdicker]

Disappointedly I am selling my Scura, but before I do, I am determined to get the better of it and look to you all for help and assistance.

1: It vibrates like a cheap motel bed, how do you get rid of this? (the carbs are balanced to within a trillionth of their lives)

2: It wobbles like a birthday jelly, how do you overcome this? (I have fiddled with the settings with the meticulousness of a surgeon)

3: It has a spot flatter than a pancake at 5000rpm, can this be eradicated? (I can't bring myself to spend another washer on this outrageous thing)

4: Bridgestone exert much more pressure on their tyres than the lily-livered Guzzi manual, which is right? (I have tried both obviously, but what do you do)

Is it just me or do you all have rose tinted glasses on?

If this is the best Guzzi can do after 3500years of recorded civilised thinking then I am a carrot.

David

54899[/snapback]

 

I hope I don't have rosecolored glasses on.........however............you need to tend the beast and sort it before you will begin to enjoy it. At first rosy blush, it ain't much of a machine. It's only after a *little* TLC that it begins to shine.

 

1: Heavy barends and mileage solves this. If your bike has less than 5K miles, forget it........

2: Discussed endlessly here; Ohlins race kit is wrong spec for bike, you need be 160 lbs and flying at race speeds over clean tarmac for the ohlins to feel smooth. Lack of progressive rear linkage is part of the issue, causing handling characteristics like an old Ducati 900SS. Respringing and revalving of the shock and forks will solve 90% of this, a worthwhile $600 expense, IMHO.

3: Some guys go for the PCIII, others just try new mapping. Mileage also smooths this out naturally too. Some people get bothered by this flat spot more than others; the more you're bothered by it, the more radical measures you take. In the end though, it's 100% solvable.

4: This one is personal taste. I think the bridgestone crap, others swear by 'em. I have Avons at 36/40 after much fiddling, but everyone's different. You can find the right tire/pressure combo that's right for you.........just search the forum and read others experiences.

 

it's not a honda.......blah, blah, blah.........and you are not a carrot. Good luck.

 

Dan

[big J]

1- What kind of vibration? High or low frequency?

2-What do you mean,"wobble"? Does it weave,headshake,wallow-what?

3-Put on a set of cans,murder the airbox lid with a holesaw, fit a PC111, dyno it. It's a different bike.

4-Take off the Bridgestones and fit Pirelli Diablo's. Huge difference.

5-Get it out and get some miles on it. They get better over time.

6-On that particular day,at that particular time,it might well have been the best they could do-it's up to you to make it better.

7-Recorded thnking goes back further than 3500 years you vegetable.

8-I'm originally frae Ru'glen and I'm back in Lanark every wee while visiting my kids if you want any help.

[Guzzirider]

Keep it and perservere- you will be pleased you made the effort.

 

BTW- Ohlins is fuggin brilliant once set up properly. Very sensitive to adjustments- your bike should handle beautifully once its sorted.

 

Try a few more PSI in your rear Bridgstone (I use 2.9 bar) but keep the fromt at standard pressure.

 

I second the comments about getting a PC111- get the fuelling set up on a good dyno and you will love it again.

 

Unfortunatley V11s need a heavy investment of love, attention and money to get them running to your satisfaction.

 

Guy

[davidmcm]

Thanks Al,

I'll try to be a bit more specific: the vibration is as if the crank needs to be dynamically balanced with the rods/pistons ie constant roughness. I have had this done to my 992cc V7 Sport (you can see an article on this if you can be bothered at www.s3750motoguzzi.co.uk under David McMillan's V7 Sport racer in the features section) the Scura has now done 7250 miles and the vibration has fractured the headlamp bulb reflector arm off the housing. It tingles the bars at at high freqency when revving past 5000rpm and reverberates through the bars at low revs when below that, at no time is it as smooth as I know a big twin can feasibly be.

I am not sure if the clutch is a culprit in adding to the apparent imbalance as the low inertia RAM clutch assembly fitted to my V7 is dynamically balanced at the factory and is smooth as silk whereas the Scura one rattles around intermittently like a cement mixer depending on how it is feeling as some times it makes no noise at all.

I can fill the bars with liquid heavy metal as recommended elsewhere but that is curing the symptom not the cause.

The handling feels like the back end isnt coping with the bumps of a normal road, when I turn up the compression and rebound damping into the last 25% of stiffness it seems to diminish the wallowing but conseqently if the wrong type of bump is encountered then this firm set up fires me out of the seat. Experience has shown that perceived rear end problems can be sourced to the front forks but I find the Scura forks very basic and none of the manuals seem to match the forks fitted to my bike ie I don't have compression damping adjustment at the fork bottoms like all the manuals (www.ohlins.com) suggest I should have and I can't see how a 3mm allen key will fit the round hole I've got ton give me rebound adjustment in th fork tops does anybody know the spec code for these forks? All I seem to be able to do is squishely turn the preload nut back and forth. I have set static sag accordingly.

Incidentally it seems the steering damper is a redundant fashion accessory as it isn't needed because the head never shakes.

The flat spot is at 5000rpm and I can't be more specific unless to say the feeling is like the main jet is too big/rich so that on opening the throttle it feels as if the back brake is dragging (now there's something I've not checked) before it picks up at max torque around 6000rpm.

The tyre pressures in the manual are different from the spec supplied by Bridgestone for the particular tyre and most modern bikes run that higher Bridgestone recommendation but I am aware that the Scura's shaft drive could generate different criteria and was curious what others found.

I appreciate rider weight, type of riding, price of eggs and the phase of the moon all prevent answers other than generic ones but if someone has specific experience of a Scura set up I would be very happy to hear that advice and if you think this should be moved to another forum I am obviously in your hands.

Regards

David

[davidmcm]

Thanks Dan,

What you say about the Ohlins being set up for a specific rider weight would suggest rightly that I need to explore (expensively) spring rates to cope with my specific needs. However I find this ludicrous that this should be necessary unless the factory have got it completely wrong in the first place. No other manufacturer I am aware of expects the customer to do this and usually designs the optimum range of performance to cope with both single and pillion use (which must be fairly widely encompassing). However I am willing to be led to water, where can I buy alternative springs for the Scura and does anybody have part numbers and spec codes for the Ohlins forks fitted?

Regards

David

[jrt]

Usually the flat spot is between 3-4K rpm, and then kind of bland from 4-5K. Above 5, my sport motor really starts to open up. What helped more than anything with the lower rpms was new, open, pipes, new stucchi crossover (helped most) and opening up the breather box to just air-filter pods. The intake and the exhaust are fairly restricted in stock form.

Also, there's no substitute for miles. Mine started to open up at 5K, but really started to blossom at 10K. Give her a few miles.

 

Oh- vibration....

vibrates some at all rpms, but smooths out at 5K plus. My solution- ride at or above 5K unless a cop is looking at me.

[davidmcm]

Thanks BigJ

I am reluctant to spend hundreds of pounds on cans, PC111 and drill holes in the airbox as I am worried about the resale value (I hope the irony of that comment is not lost) but does your recommendation mean that the bike cant be made to work as standard?

If I have the bike when the next set of tyres need replacing I will try the Pirellis on your recommendation.

I was born in Lanark and they only received civilisation 35 minutes ago.

regards

David

[davidmcm]

Thanks Guy,

I will try to persevere, but it is so difficult not to stray, I have had impure thoughts about 50 gallon drums of Avgas and a 1976 Ducati 900ss.

ohlins pohlins: the rear shock (apt name) has been replaced under warranty and my current perception is that Scuras are fitted with Basement Billy's budjet squibs.

My WP twin emulsion shocks and Marzocchi M1R forks fitted to my V7 Sport are supple and sophisticated by comparison but maybe I am just not capable to set Ohlins stuff up properly and thats why I am on here to look for settings people have actually tried.

Regards

David

[davidmcm]

Thanks JRT,

Wherever the falt (not a spelling mistake) spot is I have heard conflicting reports on the stucchi crossover, that the crossover does nothing it is simply the cans that do the business, in fact the stucchi crossover diminishes power according to the published dyno graphs, I think on the Guzzitech website, and the the PC111 is also perceived by many to be an unecessary expense.

Did you fit everything at once or incrementally to check what each bit did?

However I am new to the world of fuel injection and am willing to be convinced. I am worried about downloading maps from the internet as they may only be as good as the technician who put them in.

What are the advatages of the PC111?

thanks

David

[big J]

Hi David, I would imagine that the stock ecu can be reconfigured to some extent, tho I have no personal experience of that. All modern bikes have a "hole" in the powerband around 5000rpm to pass noise/ emmisions tests, I was aware of this before I got mine,and had planned tomodify it slightly to eliminate this effect. I forgot to add, the crossover made a difference, definately.Whilst I agree that it can be quite expensive, I was lucky, I got the Mistral cans secondhand, Todd at Guzzitech does a great deal on a PC111, the dearest bit was the crossover. If the bike is wallowing at the back, try increasing spring preload a bit, back off the damping to as little as possible til you get in the ballpark. Vibration- yeah,mine vibrates like that too, but I'm used to old Brits,Laverda,Harleyetc so I cant say it bothers me too much. I'd agree tho, that a dynamic balance of the rotating assembly would probably work wonders. Cant help much with the Ohlins I'm afraid, mine has the el cheapo Marz/Sachs combo which is good enough for me.

[dbdicker]

Thanks Dan,

What you say about the Ohlins being set up for a specific rider weight would suggest rightly that I need to explore (expensively) spring rates to cope with my specific needs. However I find this ludicrous that this should be necessary unless the factory have got it completely wrong in the first place. No other manufacturer I am aware of expects the customer to do this and usually designs the optimum range of  performance to cope with both single and pillion use (which must be fairly widely encompassing). However I am willing to be led to water, where can I buy alternative springs for the Scura and does anybody have part numbers and spec codes for the Ohlins forks fitted?

Regards

David

54968[/snapback]

 

 

Unfortunately, you are right; the factory got it completely wrong. In their haste to make a 'race replica' for their V11 series in 02, they simply called ohlins for race equipment to slap on their bike with liitle thought of real world usage. This is what I intuit from my experience with my Scura. I've found you can twiddle the knobs as much as you'd like, but find little resultant improvement with the stock stuff as it is sprung/valved. BTW, this isn't true with every V11 fitted with Ohlins kit. Apparently, MG wised up after it's Scura experience and fitted later Rosso's, etc. with correct real-world kit from Ohlins. (Lucky us, Scura owners, eh?)

 

The good news is that the Scura Ohlins kit is not one-off OEM stuff; it's real good expensive, race spec kit - and therefore easily reworked into shock absorbers that will actually --- ahem --- absorb shocks I went to Pro Pilot racing here in the States for the work. Jim is an authorized Ohlins dealer so had access to the Ohlins files and could call up the specific fork/shock combo on the Scura with stock spring rates, valving, part numbers etc. From there, it was easy to take my measurements, ask a few questions and refit both ends with 'proper for me' springs/valves/fork oil. BINGO. Brand new bike. Smooth, compliant, secure feeling, comfy. Best $600 I ever spent on ANY bike i've owned, although it shouldn't have been necessary.

 

Find an authorized Ohlins dealer/racing genius, he should have access to these records as Jim did. OR...........YOU COULD BE REALLY SMART.............and box up the forks and shock and send them to Jim. His turnaround is really quick and he'll send you the kit for shipping in your suspension bits to him, just visit his website.

 

 

PS You might as well keep the Scura and sort it. Besides being a killer bike, it's practically worthless on the used market - or haven't you noticed.

 

Dan

[Baldini]

David,

 

Hi! We corresponded some long while back regarding tuning Tontis...it got held up! Got a Scura instead. Still got me Tontis (always) & it will happen...

 

Like they all say - it can be sorted & can be got to run pretty good stock too. Missed this thread lost down the bottom here - will digest & reply more wholeheartedly later.

 

Meanwhile, best wishes,

 

Keith

[jrt]

Thanks JRT,

Wherever the falt (not a spelling mistake) spot is I have heard conflicting reports on the stucchi crossover, that the crossover does nothing it is simply the cans that do the business, in fact the stucchi crossover diminishes power according to the published dyno graphs, I think on the Guzzitech website, and the the PC111 is also perceived by many to be an unecessary expense.

Did you fit everything at once or incrementally to check what each bit did?

54974[/snapback]

 

I fitted things incrementally. Pipes first, then the pods (airfilters) then, much later, the stucchi xover. I have not fitted a PCIII yet. The pipes made little perceptible difference, but they sound cool. Likewise the the pods. Both did make some difference on the top end, but that's not where I usually ride. However, they did sound great, so whether or not I was going faster, I sure enjoyed it more! I didn't think it would get any better, but I still had that niggling 4K flat spot. Then I fitted the stucchi. I didn't want to buy one, because they are expensive and I'm cheap. But I found a used one for $100, so I decided to do the experiment.

The stucchi made the most real world difference- right in the midrange where I normally ride. I can't say if I lost or gained power at the top end, but the mid opened up and it pulls hard to yellow line. I'm willing to trade it if I did lose a hp or two. In order to accomodate the changes, I did have to richen the TPS setting. There still is a bit of vibration 3-4K, so I try to avoid that range, and I can tell there is still a minor flat spot, but overall it is much, much improved.

I don't have a PCIII, as I said above. Many folks have praised the PCIII, most of the nay-sayers, I've noticed, are not users. Of course, that could be because it's an expensive part, so of course it benefits. Like a titanium air-bleed screw that gives you 5 hp on the top end. I just can't say, because I don't know. I'll probably get one some day, just to do the experiment myself. I was very skeptical of the stucchi and now I admit I was wrong on that one.

 

However I am new to the world of fuel injection and am willing to be convinced. I am worried about downloading maps from the internet as they may only be as good as the technician who put them in.

What are the advatages of the PC111?

thanks

David

 

I think fuel injection is a lot simpler than carbs. There's two adjustments to make (normally). TPS and TB synching. TPS is a knob and a voltmeter- it doesn't get much easier. I found the TBs went out of synch pretty often early on during break-in. The bike would get real nasty vibrations. Synching the TBs would fix it for 3K miles or so. After about 12-15K miles, they haven't seemed to move much (I'm at 18K now).

Of course, all of this is on my bike, in my area, using my gas, etc. It seems the V11 is about as variable in response to mods as the Tonti frames are. For me, the stucchi just 'worked'. The others are candy- taste great, but not as nutritious.

I don't feel qualified to discuss the merits of the PCIII- I just don't have one, nor have I ridden a bike fitted with one. I want to keep an open mind on the unit, so I'll defer to others on this topic. I do agree with your assessment of the maps, so I would talk to Todd Eagan, the guy who sells the PCIII. I've heard nothing but good things about Todd.

 

Summary- if I were only going to make one modification, I'd do the xover. Then the pipes, then the intake. The injection has to be adjusted to accomodate these changes, but that is easily done by enriching at the TPS. TB synching makes a huge difference in perceived vibrations and character.

 

If you wait till winter, I'll ship you my xover and you can try it out yourself. Not 'till winter though- too much in the meantime.

J