rear axle removal/lube

[Guest ckamin]

Hi guys, 1 quick question: I've read the threads on removal of the rear axle and have wondered if all one needs to do to check for lubrication is just remove the axle and look. Is that the case? And, if so, what lube should be applied if it looks like there isn't much present?

 

Also, with the bike on some kind of stand, do I need to be concerned about alignment issues or will the rear wheel stay put if I take out the axle for lube purposes?

 

Thanks alot in advance!

 

-Carl

[Guest ratchethack]

Carl, since it's a quick question, I'll attempt a "quick" answer, but I have to assume a little bit about what I think you're interested in accomplishing. The most recent posts here have dealt only with the results of neglect to lube the spindle (axle), which can result in seizure of the spacer and/or spindle nut.

 

Leaving the bevel box & shaft splines out of consideration (this is also important but you didn't ask), the following areas require lube and are accessible when the spindle is withdrawn. All should be checked and/or lubed as required:

 

1. wheel bearings (they're sealed, so they should only need checking for roughness)

2. hub drive splines (dry from the factory!)

3. cush drive collar and housing (dry from the factory!) [ref. the prev. discussion by doing a lookup on "cush drive"]

4. spindle and nut

 

To accomplish only #4 above, support the brake hanger and rear wheel together from below. The brake hanger and caliper should tend to stay roughly oriented by the disk. Withdraw the spindle, and simply line it all up again to re-install the lubed spindle.

 

You need the wheel off for 1-3. Assuming you have the bike on a stand (!), if you carefully withdraw the spindle from the drive-side by about 7" only, this will allow you to "hang" the bevel box in place on the remaining part of the spindle still inside the swingarm so that the wheel can be removed. Be careful not to allow the bevel box to drop down. This can damage the forward u-joint on the drive shaft. When in doubt, best to support it from above with bungees or the like around the torque stay, or from below with blocks.

 

The brake hanger will fall free as the spindle is withdrawn, and the caliper can be disengaged from the disk. If you move it at all in the process of pulling the spindle out 7", the wheel will either fall free off the splines, or it can be gently pulled free. Pay attention to the short hub spacer, which may fall out, for replacement in the proper sequence.

 

As far as alignment goes, taking the wheel out will not disturb alignment of the swingarm. This is the only alignment to be concerned with involving the rear wheel.

 

There might be as many opinions about the kind of lube to use here as there are opinions on engine oil. My personal choice for all the above is generic BTWBG (boat trailer wheel bearing grease). I prefer this because it's specifically formulated to resist water intrusion and it has a fairly high retention factor to resist being thrown off the hub splines when applied sparingly via a brush. BTW - though I've ridden in a few flat-out downpours for many (too many!) miles, I've had ZERO symptoms of water intrusion or rust afterward in any part of my rear wheel hub, as so many others seem to have experienced.

 

I reckon I botched the "quick" answer, but hope this helps.

[Guest ckamin]

Thank you for the reply. My concern was that I had read about the lack of lubing from the factory and I wanted to make sure it wouldn't be an issue for me. I guess it is the hub drive splines? My '03 V11 has about 2000 miles on it. I forgot to specifically ask if it was done on the first service (Sport Cycle Pacific, Santa Barbara, Ca) but I saw that at least the nut was removed from the shaft due to the now-misaligned factory paint markings.

 

Thanks for the input. What kind of stand/jack do you recommend?

 

Thanks!

[Guest Nogbad]

 

Thanks for the input. What kind of stand/jack do you recommend?

 

Thanks!

58423[/snapback]

 

There are options of varying financial damage.

 

There is a Guzzi stand a bit like the ABBA type stand that picks up on the nuts under the pork chops, and these seem to be recommended.

You can also use a normal paddock stand, but they aren't real great and often slip during work.

I use a trolley jack to get the bike up on car type chassis stands placed under the pork chops. Works for me. If I had to do a lot of work to it I would consider the Guzzi centre stand as recommended by the enthusiasic wrenching types on here.

[jrt]

If you get a Guzzi stand, be very careful in getting the forks under the nuts. It's easy to scratch the paint off the porkchops- mine are all scratched up. Doesn't hurt anything, but it doesn't look very nice.

[belfastguzzi]

the nuts - mine are all scratched up.  Doesn't hurt anything, but it doesn't look very nice.

58429[/snapback]

Best get yer ointment out again.

[badmotogoozer]

thanks belfast. Now I have to go home and change my pants.

 

Ryan

[Guest slowpoke]

I just did this again the first time for a new rear tire (Pirelli Diablo's) and the second for a failed rear bearing. It's quite easy to do provided one has the right stands. I use a combination of the hydraulic motorcycle/atv stand and the stand that is made for the V11's from MPH cycle (or is it MG cycle?). Just support the drive assembly and the rear brake (I use wood) and unscrew the rear spindle with the hex tool in your tool pouch connected to a 14mm socket and a 27mm on the brake side. Lubricate the spline and axle spindle with a high quality grease that is preferably waterproof and reassemble not forgetting the spacer. Tighten to 120 nm or 90 lbs. Voila' you are ready to ride. Incidentally. if you need to replace the rear wheel bearings they are #6204 2RS C3. Do not, I repeat, do not use Chinese bearings. Use American or Japanese bearings.

[dlaing]

. Do not, I repeat, do not use Chinese bearings. Use American or Japanese bearings.

58445[/snapback]

There might be something to that.

My second rear bearing (before I figured out I needed a longer spacer) was made in China, and failed.

I recollect I am now running one from Argentina and one from Hungary....both SKF of the same model number.

[Guest rollingthunder]

Thanks for the input. What kind of stand/jack do you recommend?

58423[/snapback]

 

I can vouch for the ABBA stand - expensive but its one of those 'you get what you pay for' items

 

I bought mine from another Owners Club member - I paid 60GBP for it, as opposed to over 100GBP for a new one. I suppose you might find one on eBay, but I haven't seen one in a few months...

[Guest Nogbad]

I can vouch for the ABBA stand - expensive but its one of those 'you get what you pay for' items

58465[/snapback]

 

The advantage of the ABBA stand over the Guzzi stand, is that if (heaven forbid) you should sell your V11 and get a different bike, the ABBA can be adjusted for use on almost any other bike you may buy.

 

I might even buy one myself before I cause the Guzzi to fall over on me!

[Guest ratchethack]

My concern was that I had read about the lack of lubing from the factory and I wanted to make sure it wouldn't be an issue for me. I guess it is the hub drive splines?

Carl, to make a not-so-quick reply even less quick, in addition to the drive splines in the hub, you're well advised to make sure the shaft splines have been lubed properly as long as you have the wheel off. It's a relatively easy step at this point to remove the torque rod bolt and nut in the upper mounting boss on the bevel box, draw the spindle all the way out, and pull the bevel box straight back and out, exposing the shaft splines. This is evidently the purpose of the forward of the rearmost 2 zerks, but it's so easy to look at and apply grease directly here, you might as well see exactly what's goin' on and take away all doubt.

 

NOTE: It's VERY important to maintain the original angular orientation of the drive and driven splines. The factory provides painted-on markings on the shaft for the purpose of matching it up. If you don't get get this right after lubing the splines, the u-joints will without any question be heading south on the next A-train. Also - If you set the bevel box down on it's side, you can expect to lose gear oil thru the breather, so best prop it up somewhere near level when you set it down.

 

Take a look at the roller bearing in the right-hand side of the bevel box to check it's condition. It's another known area of water entry and might need cleaning out and/or additional lube.

 

BTW - This may be your best opportunity to lube the zerks in the u-joints (including the infamous one in front, see many threads on this topic by doing a search). Depending on who's doing the telling, this is either your worst nightmare (after giving up on many other approaches, some finally remove the swingarm) or an easy 5-minute job on the side-stand. I'd call it non-trivial at best, and best done with the bevel box out.

 

Have fun!

[bigbikerrick]

Carl, since it's a quick question, I'll attempt a "quick" answer, but I have to assume a little bit about what I think you're interested in accomplishing.  The most recent posts here have dealt only with the results of neglect to lube the spindle (axle), which can result in seizure of the spacer and/or spindle nut. 

 

Leaving the bevel box & shaft splines out of consideration (this is also important but you didn't ask), the following areas require lube and are accessible when the spindle is withdrawn.  All should be checked and/or lubed as required:

 

1. wheel bearings (they're sealed, so they should only need checking for roughness)

2. hub drive splines (dry from the factory!)

3. cush drive collar and housing (dry from the factory!) [ref. the prev. discussion by doing a lookup on "cush drive"]

4. spindle and nut

 

To accomplish only #4 above, support the brake hanger and rear wheel together from below.  The brake hanger and caliper should tend to stay roughly oriented by the disk.  Withdraw the spindle, and simply line it all up again to re-install the lubed spindle. 

 

You need the wheel off for 1-3.  Assuming you have the bike on a stand (!), if you carefully withdraw the spindle from the drive-side by about 7" only, this will allow you to "hang" the bevel box in place on the remaining part of the spindle still inside the swingarm so that the wheel can be removed.  Be careful not to allow the bevel box to drop down.  This can damage the forward u-joint on the drive shaft.  When in doubt, best to support it from above with bungees or the like around the torque stay, or from below with blocks.

 

The brake hanger will fall free as the spindle is withdrawn, and the caliper can be disengaged from the disk.  If you move it at all in the process of pulling the spindle out 7", the wheel will either fall free off the splines, or it can be gently pulled free.  Pay attention to the short hub spacer, which may fall out, for replacement in the proper sequence.

 

As far as alignment goes, taking the wheel out will not disturb alignment of the swingarm.  This is the only alignment to be concerned with involving the rear wheel. 

 

There might be as many opinions about the kind of lube to use here as there are opinions on engine oil.  My personal choice for all the above is generic BTWBG (boat trailer wheel bearing grease).  I prefer this because it's specifically formulated to resist water intrusion and it has a fairly high retention factor to resist being thrown off the hub splines when applied sparingly via a brush.  BTW - though I've ridden in a few flat-out downpours for many (too many!) miles, I've had ZERO symptoms of water intrusion or rust afterward in any part of my rear wheel hub, as so many others seem to have experienced.

 

I reckon I botched the "quick" answer, but hope this helps.

58405[/snapback]

Excellent post! very informative to us new to the Guzzi,and trying to learn all we can. I saw in your information that your bike has a piastra-colleg trans frame plate, what is that???? thank you, sir.

[beauchemin]

Do not, I repeat, do not use Chinese bearings. Use American or Japanese bearings.

58445[/snapback]

 

That's not true. It does not matter where the bearing is made. The important decision is to chose a reputable manufacturer (SKF, FAG, INA or whatever) and the correct type of bearing. An SKF factory in China is exactly the same as an SKF factory in Germany.

[Guest ratchethack]

Excellent post! very informative to us new to the Guzzi,and trying to learn all we can. I saw in your information that your bike has a piastra-colleg trans frame plate, what is that???? thank you, sir.

58591[/snapback]

Glad to help. RE: piastra colleg: See discussion and Docc's photo at post #36 in this thread:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...ansmission&st=0

Incredibly, it was about as difficult to install the thing as it was to fabricate to dimensions taken with the trans in place. My theory on why they dropped it from production is that it's so hard to install that the cost of labor finally made it impossible to get by the bean-counters...