Change of weather and PCIIIusb

[stormsedge]

Has anyone experienced a need to change PCIII settings as the weather cools a bit from +100 and very humid to high 80's-90's and less humid? Seems I'm starting to show symptoms of being a bit lean again. It makes sense that I may have to tinker with it, but wonder if anyone else has? k

[RacerX]

Has anyone experienced a need to change PCIII settings as the weather cools a bit from +100 and very humid to high 80's-90's and less humid?  Seems I'm starting to show symptoms of being a bit lean again.

 

k, every bike is different, so depending on your maps origin (you didn't say it was a custom map for your bike or if you had a diagnostic run done, so I'll assume not), but based on known parameters of our ECU, it (the ECU) will typically lean the mixture as the OAT (air temp.) gets warmer, not the other way around. What are your "lean symptoms"?

[Guest motts]

Has anyone experienced a need to change PCIII settings as the weather cools . . .

The PC3 has nothing to do with temperature adjustments, altitude adjustments, barometric adjustments, etc. All of these adjustments are the product of the information stored in your ECU. Cliff Jefferies in fact says about the basic Moto Guzzi ECU programming that "One other area I feel is not right is the barometric compensation. My bike seemed to have a variation in performance from day to day. Either they under compensate or over compensate for air pressure and temperature." ((see this)) This is a part of his justification for why someone might want to buy his product. Unlike the PC3 (I have one on my Centauro) which rides on top of the ECU, Cliff's project is a complete ECU replacement that gives you complete control over all the elements of your motorcycles fuel injection.

 

The ECU which came with my Moto Guzzi Centauro has also been acknowledged (by Will Creedon) to have these same problems. I needed to change my EPROM from the Moto Guzzi part to a C5 for my bike. This was supposed to fix all my problems. It didn't. It did however fix many of them including the Temperature, Altitude and Barometric adjustments. I then put the PC3 on top of my ECU with the C5 inside and fine tuned myself to an acceptable level of performance.

 

So a PC3 with a custom map is only really good for the specific altitude of the Tuning Link center where your map was made. It is only good for the temperature that day and the relative barometric pressure on that occassion! Any variation from those specifics will cause the fuel metering of the ECU to change, whereas the PC3 will keep doing it's thing like nothing at all has changed. If the ECU meters a different amount of fuel one day than the next, because of these ambiant changes, the PC3 doesn't know about it and only adds or subtracts the amount of fuel as desided on the day the custom map was made.

 

Several PC3 owners have discussed being able to carry and load different maps when sufficient environmental changes made it neccessary. Most who travel in Centauro circles have optioned for the C5 and put a PC3 on top of their ECU. Others have purchased Cliff's ECU and done all the work required to go down that path.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I love my PC3 despite not being able to find a place to get a proper map made. It has enabled me to do things that I needed in a fuel injection world.

 

I suspect that you need to investigate (not having the bike you have I do not know what ECU you are using) getting a good EPROM or flashed upgrade for your core ECU to correct the environmental variables that are causing your problem. Another map will just disguise the issue until the variable changes in the other direction at which point you will have to change maps again.

[stormsedge]

k, every bike is different, so depending on your maps origin (you didn't say it was a custom map for your bike or if you had a diagnostic run done, so I'll assume not), but based on known parameters of our ECU, it (the ECU) will typically lean the mixture as the OAT (air temp.) gets warmer, not the other way around. What are your "lean symptoms"?

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Todd, okay, makes sense, the reason I was thinking it might be a bit lean is cooler air should be denser...didn't know the ECU took some of this into account. I am running your map except have richened it in all zones per our running email string a month or so ago...that said, I have gradually richened it and the days have progressively gotten hotter and more humid until this week (most noticable yesterday) as temps have dropped a bit as has the humidity. Bike feels a bit sluggish and the occasional pop through the exhaust has returned (though not as bad as it once was). As you know went through a week or so of experimenting with valve adjustments and checking TPS readings (snd reglued the heat shield under the gas tank...guess I should check it again). Will get out and flog it today a bit to see if it was just me. Thanks for your assistance. k

[stormsedge]

The PC3 has nothing to do with temperature adjustments, altitude adjustments, barometric adjustments, etc. All of these adjustments are the product of the information stored in your ECU. Cliff Jefferies in fact says...(not having the bike you have I do not know what ECU you are using) getting a good EPROM or flashed upgrade for your core ECU to correct the environmental variables that are causing your problem. Another map will just disguise the issue until the variable changes in the other direction at which point you will have to change maps again.

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Motts....WOW!...great info, but has me concerned that I maybe should be riding a Honda instead of something involving so much science . I don't know anyone around this neck of the woods capable of the type of work you describe...guess I'll have to resolve to tinker until I find it. k

[RacerX]

Without getting into a 'great ECU debate' like many times here before, Motts makes good points. However, concerning the 1.5M (which is arguably far better then its predecesors) on a nit-picky/splitting-hairs difference, yes, perhaps the 1.5M WM/MM isn't perfect. However, I am closing in on 150k miles on 2000+ newer F.I. (15M) Guzzis, and my daily riding often goes from Sea level to well over 7k feet, and well as 50~110+ degrees F (easily this time of year here), so I'd beg to differ about its functionality.

If you are the type that is happy forever tinkering, there are many ECU replacement options that offer infinite adjustments... just good luck getting them dialed-in.

However, for the vast majority of Guzzi (and most all bike) owners, a properly (dyno) mapped Guzzi (hell, now even tons using pre-built maps), will more then offer many years, and MANY miles of smiles... AND I tend to think the folks at at Magnetti/Marelli might know a thing or two about F.I., but hey, just my $.02 as always.

[Guest motts]

concerning the 1.5M (which is arguably far better then its predecesors) on a nit-picky/splitting-hairs difference, yes, perhaps the 1.5M WM/MM isn't perfect.

No, but your right, it is better than the 16M. I was shooting from the hip without a full disclosure from stormsedge.

 

Now that I have a more complete picture, stormsedge . . . go get a custom map! My EV has the same ECU and I don't even think it is enough of a problem to have a power commander on it. Based on that, I'd say if you got a proffessional tuneup and map done, I don't think you would have anymore problems to speak of regarding the fuel delivery.

 

Personally, I'd wait until the bike is broken in to have a map (only piece of data missing). My definition of when that is when there stops being a major improvement in performance following a regular service (for my California it was at 15,000 kilometers). At that point everything seems to play well together. A map made at that point should be good for many miles and many regular tuneups without any significant changes.*

 

*Damn, always a caveat. What I said is true unless you change the breathing aparatus in some way, you know, different kind of air filters or exhaust system stuff. Changes in that area will make the bikes dynamics different, and then you need another tuneup and map. I always recommend getting them both at the same time, a custom map of a piece of crap runs like a piece of crap.

 

Cheers,

[Guest motts]

Motts....WOW!...great info, but has me concerned that I maybe should be riding a Honda instead of something involving so much science

Less science than any Jap bike with FI!

I don't know anyone around this neck of the woods capable of the type of work you describe...

There are 5 Tunning Link centers in TN. I'm sure that with quick call from Todd any one of them could be brought up to speed on anything special about a Moto Guzzi. Maybe Todd already has delt with one of them and he can make a recommendation.

 

As I suggested in the other email, if your bike is broken in and a recent tuneup done a custom map should cure all of your current FI problems.

 

I don't have the luxury of English speakers here, then it gets worse because they also mostly speak Jap 4 cylinder motorcycles. All this has worked against me doing what I am suggesting you do. Of course I only really need the PC3 for my Centauro.

 

Good luck,

[stormsedge]

Less science than any Jap bike with FI!

There are 5 Tunning Link centers in TN. I'm sure that with quick call from Todd any one of them could be brought up to speed on anything special about a Moto Guzzi. Maybe Todd already has delt with one of them and he can make a recommendation.

 

Good luck,

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thanks Mott, I think most are in east TN, but there may be one out this way...Todd, anything near Memphis? k