Redline gear lube question

[Guest Nogbad]

I'd be inclined to change oil, even if at an extended interval. It could be just an unreasonable 'motorbike thing' though. I don't cosset cars so much.

 

 

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I guess with the V11 the tranny needs some time to run in, and during this time debris will be created. I think by 12000 miles this process ought to be complete, and will make frequent changes pointless. If Redline say you shouldn't need to change it barring water contamination, they should know.

[Guest ratchethack]

I favor the Keith Richards Yearly Blood Transfusion Theory:

 

"Not 'zackly sure wot's in 'ere, Guv'nah - but 's bloody certain it ain't doin' me no good..."

[bigbikerrick]

I favor the Keith Richards Yearly Blood Transfusion Theory: 

 

"Not 'zackly sure wot's in 'ere, Guv'nah - but 's bloody certain it ain't doin' me no good..."

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Bwaaahaaaahaaaa! I love it, I love it!

[mikethebike]

When I read the good words about SPH I immediately ordered some from Redline UK which for £24.76 inc carriage for 946cc must be brilliant stuff. (This was cheaper than Demon Tweeks). The package came two days later and went in the g'box yesterday.

Now, my real interest in this oil is as a result of a whirr from the gearbox which is evident at all speeds in all gears and developed about 200 miles after I bought the bike. It’s a bit like an electric milk-float noise and has bugged me for a long time. On a trip to Italy I asked Agostini’s for their opinion but they thought it sounded OK. The noise is definitely there though. I’ve experimented with other oils with no improvement but the SPH claims it has much thicker oil-film properties and is like a 250 grade oil at working temperature, with noise reduction properties.

So, sounds like this has to be the stuff I’ve been looking for to get rid of the dreaded whirr.

Well, a test run today showed that the noise has been reduced (some) and I definitely have a slicker shift. So thumbs up for Redline. I don’t plan to leave it in there forever but I should get 2 or 3 times the life of dinograde which will reduce the effect on my wallet.

The oil itself is red and thick – like a raspberry milkshake. There was about 100cc left in the bottle. I couldn’t resist it – a good dollop of whipped cream on top – mmm, deelishus.

[Guest ratchethack]

....a whirr from the gearbox which is evident at all speeds in all gears...Agostini’s...thought it sounded OK. The oil itself is red and thick – like a raspberry milkshake. There was about 100cc left in the bottle. I couldn’t resist it – a good dollop of whipped cream on top – mmm, deelishus.

Deelishus indeed! And when you spill it in your shop, it makes a dandy floor wax too!

 

You're probably fully aware that this is a straight-cut gearbox, & that it's both more efficient and louder than your garden-variety helical-cut gears. I also found that though RLSH quieted it down, it's still noticeable. Fortunately, we have the clackety valve train and rackety clutch percussion section falling in with the exhaust system horn section to drown it out very nicely.

[k7qz]

I also am a fan of Redline but admit that I have tended to experiment with multiple synthetics in all my bikes. Run this or that for several months, then switch it out and try another flavor. In addition to the Redline I've run such full-synths as Spectro, Motul, Royal Purple, Amsoil and Mobil 1. Currently am using the Motul Gear 300 Racing synth 75W-90 in the V11 and like it.

 

Like the others above when I've querried Redline over which oil to use in my bike(s) the response is always the same- Heavy Shockproof- regardess if I'm asking about a Guzzi, Yamaha or a BMW.

 

FWIW, I didn't really like the Heavy (strawberry milkshake) in my BMW GS Adventure. Compared to the other oils I played with, the Heavy felt as if I were running my bike with the "parking brake on". Tried switching out to Redline Lightweight Shockproof (blueberry milkshake) and this worked like a charm, at least in my Beemer.

 

Now there are guys I ride with who swear by Heavy in their BMW's (or whatever). Just wondering if anyone else has noted this "drag" feeling in their Guzzi (like I did in my GS) compared to other full synthetics you've run ??? Maybe I'm just oversensitive !

 

-Mike

[Guest ratchethack]

I didn't really like the Heavy (strawberry milkshake) in my BMW GS Adventure.  Compared to the other oils I played with, the Heavy felt as if I were running my bike with the "parking brake on". 

Did you check to see if it was on?

 

But seriously - My take is that it's entirely possible to detect a difference here. There more'n likely is some difference. If I were going for a Land Speed Record, I'd probably have something like 30wt. in the trans and bevel box just to chase every possible advantage in reducing frictional losses, as I'd be a lot less concerned about long term durability of the running gear than I'd be about maximizing speed.

 

On the other hand, several posters here, and one Guy I know personally, have had serious rear brake dragging problems (enough to torch the rotor!) and didn't even notice THIS kind of drag. Not exactly sure I would either, come to think of it - unless I looked at and/or felt the disk.... (which I do from time to time, BTW) But I doubt they'd have noticed even a 10% delta in coefficient of friction in their gear lube.

 

In any case, I reckon shock protection and longevity trumps ultimate speed for most of us when it comes to choice of gear lube, per recommendations of both OEMs and lube mfgrs. I suspect from all I've read, and from first-hand observation of the surprisingly (to me anyway) lowered temperature of both trans and bevel box over running synth 75W90, that RLSH at operating temp has a lower coefficient of friction than many, if not most alternatives anyway, possibly even some of the lighter grade synth. lubes out there... But now we're splitting hairs, aren't we?

 

Just my

[k7qz]

[quote But now we're splitting hairs, aren't we?

 

Yep, but it's what makes this all so fun!

 

If you get the chance, try "blueberry" (lightweight) sometime- it's an interesting difference in feel (crisp) and the extra protection provided by heavy for a transmission that was designed back when dinosaurs ruled the earth might be overkill?

 

-Mike

[dlaing]

I have been using the light, and find it to be great stuff.

I think the test to determine if it is the right stuff is to make mental notes of how it shifts at varying temperatures.

First of all, Redline makes it run cooler, so for that reason alone, a lighter grade than what is specified would be more ideal, right?

Theoretically this is correct, however, how much lighter is debateable, and so is correctness of the original specification of 80W90.

So, if I lived in a cold rural environment like Wales, I would seriously consider the light weight, while Madrid in Summer time would beg for heavy weight.

I primarily ride in mild to hot weather, but on rural roads where I am rarely stuck in conditions that would cause the engine or gearbox to overheat.

So far with the oil, the shifting generally gets lighter and easier as the engine warms up.

I have only noticed once, after climbing out of the Borrego Desert in 100+F weather, that the shifting seemed to get stiffer due to heat.

If I was running dino gear lube, the shifting would have gotten worse many miles of desert sooner.

The most noticeable difference is when the engine is cold. The gears shift with a soft firm snick.

When warm, the snick is just a little lighter and crisper.

So, I am very happy with the light weight and would not think of switching to heavy at this time of year.

Perhaps in June, I'll give the Heavy weight a try. If it does not steal MPGs, I will stick with it.

Or maybe ratchet and I can exchange rides to compare snicks

 

[Dan M]

I also am a fan of Redline but admit that I have tended to experiment with multiple synthetics in all my bikes.  Run this or that for several months, then switch it out and try another flavor.  In addition to the Redline I've run such full-synths as Spectro, Motul, Royal Purple, Amsoil and Mobil 1.  Currently am using the Motul Gear 300 Racing synth 75W-90 in the V11 and like it.

 

Like the others above when I've querried Redline over which oil to use in my bike(s) the response is always the same- Heavy Shockproof- regardess if I'm asking about a Guzzi, Yamaha or a BMW.

 

FWIW, I didn't really like the Heavy (strawberry milkshake) in my BMW GS Adventure.  Compared to the other oils I played with, the Heavy felt as if I were running my bike with the "parking brake on".  Tried switching out to Redline Lightweight Shockproof (blueberry milkshake) and this worked like a charm, at least in my Beemer.

 

Now there are guys I ride with who swear by Heavy in their BMW's (or whatever).  Just wondering if anyone else has noted this "drag" feeling in their Guzzi (like I did in my GS) compared to other full synthetics you've run ???  Maybe I'm just oversensitive ! 

 

-Mike

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Mike, have you noticed any real difference with various brands of synthetic of the same viscosity? I've switched the factory stuff for Spectro 75/90 and shifting seems smoother, although I'm sure things are less clunky as the miles add up too. Just wondering if there is a noticable improvement from brand to brand. I agree that a heavier lube would create some additional drag as would an over filled box.

I sell Spectro so I tend to use all for their products but would certainly try other brands.

 

Dan

[Murray]

Well I'll relate my experinces with redline gear oil. I have a 94 1100 carbed sport five speed box striaght cut only three engaugment dogs per gear no cush drive in the rear. The magazines at the time described the box as at best recalcatrent sp? (those with vague knowledge of aust politicts will understand the significance of the word). So I had the oil in the gearbox and final drive replaced with the redline stuff as i was told you hardly had to replace it better shift etc etc well it only wouldn't work, as it was getting close to due anyway. NB I change the final drive oil every 5000kms the 15000km interval of the factory is hoplessly optmistic I can now tell when the final drive oil goes up the creek I start missing gears the false neutrals suddenly return etc etc.

 

Fisrt off there was little to no differnece in shift action admittedly the oil that was removed wasn't cooked. Talked to the redline people who were making double to tripple the manufactuers recommendations. So thinkin it should be good for at least 30 000kms I rode around. The shift quality died at around 9000kms just like the rear drive oil was dead. So I dropped it the gearbox oil come out the same colour it went in, the final drive oil came out a black grey colour and was clearly shagged, replaced it with mineral oil and everything was back to how it normally was. Considering the expense of this stuff thats pretty !@#$ing poor I'm back to final drive changes every 5000kms its cheaper and more effective. To redlines credit they did offer to analise the oil but 250ml was big enough sample they needed a minum of 500ml I was studding at the time and wasn'r prepared to fork out again so I could cook it for thier benifit.

 

I suspect most of the differance you get from this stuff is because the oil that is removed is probally dead and its simply new oil. As to the manufacturer's claims of no life replacment I look at the current BMW no service final drives and wonder how long they really are going to last.

 

Murray

[Guest ratchethack]

Murray, sorry you had a problem, though IMHO there probably isn't enough hard evidence here to conclude that your lube failed in some way, as there are so many potential variables, and since, as you noted, you didn't have the lube analyzed. You didn't mention how many kms on the bike or which of the Redline products you used? In any case, I'd be interested to know, and I'm sure others would as well.

[Murray]

The bike had around 60-70 000kms on at the time certainly run in. I used what they recommended from memory the Gear oil was Blue and the final drive oil was red.

[Guest ratchethack]

Murray, sorry but I'm gonna hafta take you to the woodshed for knocking a product with a solid reputation that you can't identify any better than this on a public forum. A lot of guys monitoring this forum are rightfully concerned about recommendations on what they use in their bikes, and there's always a lot of rumor and disinformation out there. Best not muddy the waters with inconclusive information.

 

Redline has a number of categories of red-colored products, some of which would be completely inappropriate for a Guzzi bevel drive. From your posts, there's no way of knowing if what you put in there was anything near the right application, nor much of a hint about the level of credibility of whoever recommended whatever it is you used. You said "Redline people" made the rec - was that an agent, distributor, or a RL employee? You more'n likely used LightWeight ShockProof™ in your trans (since it's blue) but without better info, this is nothing more than speculation on my part. We have at least one Forum member (possibly several) using LightWeight ShockProof™ in the trans, and by his experience it appears to be a good product for the application and he's happy with it. However, it's not what the US HQ office of Redline recommends.

 

I make the assumption that the lube requirements for the final drives (which are only slightly different), and the 5-speed box of the Carb Sport and the 6-speeder in the V11s are the same, as for all practical purposes they're similar in most respects. The transmissions both use straight-cut gearsets, and the number of engagement dogs, etc., is irrelevant to lube. The only potentially significant difference I'm aware of WRT lube is that the 5-speeders evidently had a range of ser #'s with bearings with plastic cages in 'em that created some havoc. There was a theory out there that synthetic lubes disintegrated the plastic bearing cages. Maybe somebody with a better knowledge of the 5-speeds will chime in with the skinny on this.

 

From the RL Web site, here's their description of LightWeight ShockProof™:

 

A unique gear oil designed to lubricate racing transmissions and transaxles which see serious loads (not recommended for most syncro-type transmissions). It has excellent low-temperature flow which allows easier shifting when cold. May be used to obtain maximum power transfer in racing differentials which do not see high temperatures. Similar to a 75W140 gear oil, but with the lower internal friction of an SAE 30 motor oil. Used in two-stroke and four-stroke motocross transmissions (often mixed in equal parts with SuperLight ShockProof™ Gear Oil). Used in most road-racing differentials with moderate power and dogring racing transaxles.

 

Here's RLs description of what the US HQ office recommends for the Guzzi trans, Heavy ShockProof™:

 

A unique lubricant containing a suspension of solid microscopic particles as an extreme pressure agent--unique solid dispersion which cushions gear teeth to help prevent tooth breakage and allows the use of lower viscosities. Recommended for heavily-loaded racing differentials and transmissions, Off Road racing and problem gearboxes. The viscosity characteristics allow the lubricant to resist throwoff and provide a film thickness similar to a 75W250 grade, while providing the same low fluid friction as an SAE 75W90.

 

Gear lubes are like engine oil - everybody's got their favorites, and there are a lot of very good ones to choose from these days. It's pretty hard to go too far wrong, but it happens. Of course as always, YMMV

[dlaing]

  We have at least one Forum member using LightWeight ShockProof™ in his trans, and by his experience it appears to be a good product for the application and he's happy with it.  However, it's not what the US HQ office of Redline recommends for the Guzzi trans. 

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I am using the blue LightWeight ShockProof and it seems like great stuff for me.

It has minimal observable themal thinning of viscosity, so it shifts well when hot or cold.

The Dino oils that I tried seemed to shift best when warmed up, but not too hot.

Only once did I notice heat leading to a less sweet of shift. At that moment I thought, hmmmm? maybe the HeavyWeight is more appropriate? But even at that point it still shifted well, and now that Autumn is here, I doubt I'll see that type of heat for a while.

Also, I suspect older gearboxes will do better with the Heavy weight as presumably the clearances will increase.

I bet the Murray's old five speed needed Heavy, because I presume that unless it was shimmed the tolerances likely favored a heavy oil.

Besides, that would be what th US HQ of Redline recommends, for better or worse.

I think somebody else switched from light to heavy and was happier.

I'll post my switching results by July at the latest when I switch to heavy.