LeMans First Impressions

[bridgepress]

Took my 2003 LeMans on the road today, having received delivery from seller last week (who was kind enough to trailer it to Vermont from Kentucky). I love the bike. It sounds, feels, and handles like we've always known each other. Couple things--five minutes into the ride I was considering cancelling my order for bar-risers (placed with Jean-Marc, a rider who is manufacturing these). Every moment after five minutes I wished the risers were already here. Painful in the hands. I plan to install gel grips and use a Wrist-Rest, in addition to the risers. Hope it does the trick. To ease the hand pain I had to slide forward in the seat, making the pegs feel a little close, but I hope the seat/pegs ergos will improve with the risers.

 

Second thing, the bike coughed and snorted a bit at very low throttle at 3,000 rpms or so. Is this normal EFI behavior, or something that can be adjusted?

 

I'd love to hear back with any advice or thoughts.

 

Thanks,

 

Brian

[Bbennett]

You are really just beginning to "know" your bike and you may feel differently about the ergos as you become more conditioned and alter your riding position slightly on this "new to you" bike. I would give it some time. The bar position and vibration factor is not a factor to me - I have standard bars and some bar ends on my 2001 V11. I do not really even think about it.

 

I have a stutter in the 3800-4K RPM range and have noted that others have rough spots in other places - generally below 5000RPM. I suspect this could be removed if I found a good Dyno shop that could alter the map of the PC-III but the stutter is small enough that I just generally ignore it or alter my throttle or gear position. You may want to purchase a Power Commander as they are a great way to get the most from your machine.

 

Congrats on getting a LeMans

[Guest ratchethack]

I'm right with you on the stock ergo's, Bbennett. I'll probably be flamed for this, but I think that at least some of those who immediately slap bar risers on after the first few rides may be missing the boat. It's probably not a good idea to jump to any conclusions after mostly in-town riding, either. As you suggested, best put some long miles on before hacking these birds up. The Guzzi takes a while to get to know, but when you court her properly, she's a great privelege to know - as she is. I've posted here before about possibly being a Lone Ranger on this (and found out I wasn't quite) , but IMHO Guzzi has it exactly right from the factory on the bikes with the clip-on bars for the kind of riding for which they're designed.

 

Now if I were doing stoplight-to-stoplight, in-town miles as my primary mode of riding, I admit I'd probably be a little uncomfortable, but that ain't what I do, nor IMHO does this fit the primary mission objective of this class of machine. My Guzzi gets it's miles on back-country roads and mountain riding, with more obligatory miles on the super-slab and between stoplights in than I'd like, but such is life in So Calif.

 

I guess I've been pleased to own a Guzzi that evidently came before the "design by committee" policies completely took over. What I think of as a Euro-retro-style crouch is actually more comfortable for some riders (myself included) both in the twisties and at speed over long distances. For one thing, it puts that all-important correct "lordosis" in the spine! In the mountains particularly, I find the ergos are just where they need to be. Guzzi being Guzzi, I reckon this was no accident, and at least in the design phase of the V11's, I doubt if it was something the "styling department" or some market polling staff came up with, either...

 

Here's something I really appreciate - to get forward over the tank to weight the front end, where the chassis balance is properly in it's "sweet spot", all I need do is bend a bit at the elbows. It's instantaneous, and a natural part of my riding. I will say that it was a tad bit uncomfortable on the first few long rides, but I found that it could be "eased into" with total comfort over the miles. For me, it wasn't long before all traces of discomfort were a memory.

 

Now here's a shocker - With the pressure off my tailbone due to the stock "reach", I find that the stock seat is also an "all day" seat! The bouyance of the wind blast over my Stucchi 1/4 fairing seems to allow a natural balance between the bar, pegs, and seat. Within a few thou miles of my first ride I found myself actually thinking of lowering the bars...

 

It seems to me that changing ergo's around can be a bit of a Pandora's box. Judging from the used Guzzi market in recent years, a repeating short ownership history with the LM/Sport variants seems to have been: Wrists hurt > Buy bar risers. Now a$$ hurts > Buy custom seat. Now knees hurt > Buy lower pegs and foot controls. Now pegs drag, and a$$ still hurts > Sell Guzzi cheap and Ebay all the aftermarket hardware. I guess I just don't get it.

 

If you spent $2000 USD on all the added gear and invested a year of your time fiddling around on a comfort-chasing excursion because it was uncomfortable to start with, wouldn't you have been far better off with a cruiser in the first place?! Ergo's were my #1 priority when I bought my Guzzi. I knew from prior experience with another Sport bike that the the Guzzi was a spot-on fit for me. I wasn't surprised - or disappointed! But o' course, that's just me, and as always, YMMV.

[Guest Nogbad]

When I first had mine, I found the bars seemed low. After a decent number of miles, I would say the standard ergos are fine. Give it a chance before modding it.

[Guest ratchethack]

I'd love to hear back with any advice or thoughts.

Brian, sorry if I got a little wound up (it's a matter of some passion with me, I hope you understand!) . I didn't mean to hijack your thread. Your initial impressions seem to have been taken in the first few minutes and you were back and forth over the fence. Are you now adding bar risers? Maybe you've put a few more miles on by now. Any more thoughts? I'm sincerely interested.

 

Let me also hasten to add my congratulations on your '03 LeMans. My riding Pal, LeMans Dan has one. IMHO, it's one of the best Guzzi's ever, one I'd expect to become a highly sought-after Classic...

[bridgepress]

Thanks all for your replies. I've put a few more miles on and am happier than I've ever been on a motorcycle (I've owned seven Beemers and assorted Japanese bikes). This bike is the best.

 

Here's how I see the ergo issue. When my butt is against the bum stop, feet planted on the pegs, I feel like I'm reaching for the bars. It's a stretch. I've been thinking that even one inch higher bars would make enough difference to suit me right and balance my weight in all three places. I certainly don't want to alter the character of the bike, just modify slightly to fit.

 

I have gotten a lot of great info from this forum already, and appreciate all you've shared. You folks are an intensely loyal group--and I thought the BMW riders were passionate.

 

Thanks,

 

Brian

[staedtler]

 

Within a few thou miles of my first ride I found myself actually thinking of lowering the bars...

 

60076[/snapback]

 

 

me too...

[Skeeve]

Here's how I see the ergo issue.  When my butt is against the bum stop, feet planted on the pegs, I feel like I'm reaching for the bars.  It's a stretch.  I've been thinking that even one inch higher bars would make enough difference to suit me right and balance my weight in all three places.  I certainly don't want to alter the character of the bike, just modify slightly to fit.

60234[/snapback]

 

I haven't gotten a lot of road time in on my LeMans Nero, but from what I can determine, the rider is really supposed to sit the bike like a horse, w/ tension in the legs to take the weight off the butt & good posture to take pressure off your wrists. Hug the tank with your knees.

 

Like I said, I haven't had much chance to implement this since noticing it [bikes in storage at the moment... ], but the few times I actually tried it, it was like the Bike sat up & took notice, & it really wasn't all that tiring to keep up.

 

Dunno; I'll probably lower the pegs via the Buell route (just 'cause I'm longer of leg than most), but the jury is still out on the bars: I'd think that a long day in the saddle with some wind in your face & chest, and they would turn out to be pretty good...

 

Soon, soon...

[Ouiji Veck]

I thought the bars on my 02 LeMans were a bad low reach at first. And this is comming off a 900SS Duc! Now I'm completly comfortable. I've always been of the school of

thought of "Ride it till you fit it" I got real comfortable the second day out to Nova Scotia

last July. The first 400mi day my shoulder blades were yelping. The next six days

(2700mi) I was fine. I also have a TourMaster double stack tank bag that I lay my

left arm accross (such has been my way for decades) and lean into with my chest

once were out of traffic. Lots of times I put my elbo on it rnd rest my chin on my palm.

Totally relaxed and comfy. I also hang a knee out and sit way over on one cheek or the other alot between tank fulls. ( I have my quirks) Try a TourMaster tank bag.

All the ergos you need.

 

I also dialed in my carbs while under way. The 3100rpm and 3800rpm stutter finally drove me too it but was putting it off till I Adjd the valves. Just reached down and started trying 1/32 turn @ a time. Did 6 in one direction...no help.

Went back to zero then 1..2..3..4.. 5 the other way...better ...6 ...better...7 and it's running

like a kitten purring...all through the RPMs...flat throttle...prrrrrrrrrrrr

I've done my valves since and figured "Now I'll have to balance the TBs" NOT!

Plugs are tan on one side...black on the other.. (the shadow knows..)

If I'm being foolish let me know...but I figure there's a reason it's a big white thumb knob and not a little set screw...Maybe there's some Guzzi left in Guzzi after all.

Dyno tune a Guzzi? It's like Dyno tuning a John Deer

Oh..did I mention I LOVE my LeMans?

Would'a been tough without this board though.

[Guest ratchethack]

from what I can determine, the rider is really supposed to sit the bike like a horse, w/ tension in the legs to take the weight off the butt & good posture to take pressure off your wrists. Hug the tank with your knees.

Roger that, Skeeve. I've always gripped the tank with my knees on every bike I've owned just as you described, though not quite as strenuously as riding a horse. It's a habit I picked up in my dirt-riding days. I've always considered it a significant part of both feel and control. Without the R100 tank pads on my Sport (they're all scuffed up now), I'd have worn thru the paint long ago... I also find that riding with the balls of my feet on the pegs rather than with 'em under the arches contributes to feel and control, and provides the ability to unweight the seat immediately as requied. I find this all adds to the ability to dial up the muscle tone a few notches with a little inspired adrenaline shot for a natural "attack mode" posture just right for carving up the twisties...

[Orson]

Second thing, the bike coughed and snorted a bit at very low throttle at 3,000 rpms or so.  Is this  normal EFI behavior, or something that can be adjusted? 

 

I'd love to hear back with any advice or thoughts.

 

Thanks,

 

Brian

60073[/snapback]

 

it's been my experience that my Tenni doesn't agree with in town riding. Maybe cuz it runs at higher temps in stop and go traffic. It stutters & coughs on occasion. Get out of town though, and it's in its element.

 

if most of your miles are done in city traffic, something Japanese might be more suited.

 

I have long arms so the stock bars don't bother me.

[staedtler]

  I also find that riding with the balls of my feet on the pegs rather than with 'em under the arches contributes to feel and control, and provides the ability to unweight the seat immediately as requied. 

60244[/snapback]

 

 

hey...me too!

[BrianG]

Every moment after five minutes I wished the risers were already here. 

 

Second thing, the bike coughed and snorted a bit at very low throttle at 3,000 rpms or so.  Is this  normal EFI behavior, or something that can be adjusted? 

 

Thanks,

 

Brian

60073[/snapback]

 

If you can get a ride on an early V-11 Sport, you might like those clip-ons better.

 

I bought a PC III and had it tuned on a dyno. It was AMAZING to see how far off the Guzzi A/F map was in the 4-6 k RPM range. It actually was off the chart! No wonder it's got that mid-range stumble. I all truth, the PC III fixed that, but not much difference we noted anywhere else.

[Guest ratchethack]

Here's how I see the ergo issue.  When my butt is against the bum stop, feet planted on the pegs, I feel like I'm reaching for the bars.  It's a stretch.  I've been thinking that even one inch higher bars would make enough difference to suit me right and balance my weight in all three places.  I certainly don't want to alter the character of the bike, just modify slightly to fit.

Thanks for the reply, Brian. I'd say that your impression is absolutely spot-on. Your Guzzi says, "You pilot me this way". You are reaching for the bars...and it is a stretch, especially with your butt against the bum-stop... This was exactly my impression at first. At least in my case, this never passed - but it did transform from strange and unwelcome to familiar and welcome within the first couple thousand miles. I'd just urge you again to give it what it always seems to want more than anything - more miles. If as you say, "This bike is the best" - maybe best not be so eager to meddle with the Mandello magic?

 

But as always, of course, YMMV...