Missed UP and DOWN shifts

[Guest thmpr]

2000 V11 Sport with 16,000 miles - had the recall engine and transmission fixes about 3,000 miles ago. In the last 500 miles, the transmission has developed missed shifts in both upshifts and downshifts - somtimes multiple missed shifts in a row up or down - sometimes jumping over gears - somtimes the gear teeth grinding before finally engaging. Yesterday, to get home on a 400 mile ride, found it best to preload the shifter before a shift and move the lever VERY slowly and deliberately through its entire range, then let out clutch to see if a gear was selected - find a neutral - try again to find I've skipped over a gear. Both upshifts and downshifts. Most missed gears - 2nd and 5th. Up from 1st to 3rd, downshift from 6th to 4th and from 3rd to 1st. Grinding was scary - had a passenger and did not want the tranny to lock. Kept bike in 3rd and 6th for most miles to avoid shifting.

 

Any thoughts? External adjustment? If internal, could spell doom for this bike as probably not worth the cost of repair. Leaving for a 3000 mile road trip in 3 weeks. SRX to the rescue, again?

 

thmpr

Phoenix, AZ

 

2000 V11 Sport

1999 Magni Sfida 4v

1986 Yamaha SRX-6

1992 Suzuki DR800

[Guest Nogbad]

All the shifting mechanism lives under the tranny side cover behind the starter motor. The two geared together cam wheels have a ratchet and detent system to move them the right amount each time you shift. It's likely that something is wrong with the adjustment of these, or a spring has gone, maybe the linkage has come loose, or the "acorn" locknut.

 

Either way, it looks an easy fix given people have reported changing the springs by the roadside before.

[Guest ratchethack]

What Nog said. The good news it that you're not grinding gears, as the constant-mesh gearsets don't ever come out of full engagement and cannot grind. What you're hearing/feeling is the sliding dogs partially engaging in their slots due to an out-of-adjustment selector pawl not properly moving the selector shafts into position. Still not a good thing, & best not consider a trip of any length until this is fully sorted. Dlaing has had some good posts about the adjustment of the eccentric shaft that may be helpful. If you do a lookup on "eccentric" (not Dave, the shaft ) you should find 'em.

[bigbikerrick]

2000 V11 Sport with 16,000 miles - had the recall engine and transmission fixes about 3,000 miles ago.  In the last 500 miles, the transmission has developed missed shifts in both upshifts and downshifts - somtimes multiple missed shifts in a row up or down - sometimes jumping over gears - somtimes the gear teeth grinding before finally engaging.  Yesterday, to get home on a 400 mile ride, found it best to preload the shifter before a shift and move the lever VERY slowly and deliberately through its entire range, then let out clutch to see if a gear was selected - find a neutral - try again to find I've skipped over a gear.  Both upshifts and downshifts.  Most missed gears - 2nd and 5th.  Up from 1st to 3rd, downshift from 6th to 4th and from 3rd to 1st.  Grinding was scary - had a passenger and did not want the tranny to lock.  Kept bike in 3rd and 6th for most miles to avoid shifting.

 

Any thoughts?  External adjustment?  If internal, could spell doom for this bike as probably not worth the cost of repair.  Leaving for a 3000 mile road trip in 3 weeks.  SRX to the rescue, again?

 

thmpr

Phoenix, AZ

 

2000 V11 Sport

1999 Magni Sfida 4v

1986 Yamaha SRX-6

1992 Suzuki DR800

62677[/snapback]

Hi Glenn, as nogbad stated, you can easily remove the left side cover of the tranny in about 1/2 hour and take a look at the gear change mechanism which will come out with the cover. check all three springs in there ,see if one has broken. also the adjuster behind the acorn nut may do the trick for you. with the grinding and severe issues you had I would open up the sidecover and take a look inside, though. do a forum search here for" transmission spring " there is a wealth of information ,complete with pictures which will be very helpful to you., Rick.

[belfastguzzi]

people have reported changing the springs by the roadside before.

62680[/snapback]

As per web report & photos: it was an accurate simulation to ensure that such a thing could be done, if necessary. Since doing the fix, actual roadside repair has not been necessary, as all in the garden remains rosey.

[jrt]

You might try cleaning up the shifter linkage first. Also clean and grease the bolt that the shift rocker lever rides on. It's simpler than taking the tranny apart.....

[Guest thmpr]

OK - Studied the exploded view of the internal linkage and played with the adjuster under the acorn (took two people, liquid wrench, etc. to remove the lock nut that was lock-tited on). That cam does moves the shift lever and the internal shift linkage up and down, but to no avail. Went for a few test rides with the cam in different positions and shifts are still missed all over the board - up and down. The external linkage is clean and well lubed - no slop.

 

Taking the tranny cover off will tell me what? Are there any adjustments behind the cover? Maybe I'll see a bent shift fork or broken spring - scary. If removing the cover, should I not replace all three springs no matter what - kinda like replacing the throwout bearing when doing a clutch job? Then, the big question is getting the repair parts. Doubt this is in stock stuff at the dealer. Could be down for some time?

 

The amount of attention and repair this V11 required in its low 16,000 miles of life is quite embarrasing.

 

thmpr

[dlaing]

the adjuster screw being out of adjustment would only have a negative effect shifting either up or down.

I suppose a warped clutch could have a negative effect....probably mostly on downshifts.

And if you put a warped clutch together with the screw being out of adjustment to the effect of missed up shifts, you would have bad up and down shifts.(if my presumption about warped clutches is correct)

RedLine ShockProof is a cure-all, but you may be beyond its ability to help.

 

PS I am too eccentric!

[belfastguzzi]

Taking the tranny cover off will tell me what?  Are there any adjustments behind the cover?  Maybe I'll see a bent shift fork or broken spring - scary.    If removing the cover, should I not replace all three springs no matter what - kinda like replacing the throwout bearing when doing a clutch job? Then, the big question is getting the repair parts.  Doubt this is in stock stuff at the dealer.  Could be down for some time?

62727[/snapback]

 

With luck you will only be better off. There is no downside to having a look – and with what you described, I think that you should look without hesitation. Maybe something wasn't lined up right, seated properly or tightened when the dealer put it back together. Toothed seeger rings lined up properly? Cover put on with selector forks in correct position? Circlips on, or missing? etc etc.

 

No need to replace springs, unless damaged.

Better to be down for a day or two and get it fixed, than to keep using it if it's getting wrecked.

[docc]

"The amount of attention and repair this V11 required in its low 16,000 miles of life is quite embarrasing."

 

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My Sport had similar issues from 16,000 to 25,000 but has been magnificent ever since! (40,000 now)

[badmotogoozer]

The amount of attention and repair this V11 required in its low 16,000 miles of life is quite embarrasing.

 

thmpr

62727[/snapback]

 

I know exactly what you mean. I've got a pile of wore out parts that used to be a V11 with 12K kms on it. If it isn't wore out, it's leaking.

 

Rj

[Baldini]

Like Belfast says. Removing the side plate isn't a big deal. Once off you can see the whole box, check selector mech, selector forks, sliding dogs & gears. Also see any swarf or bits in there.

 

Did you drain the oil? Any debris?

 

As DLaing suggests you could try changing to Redline Shockproof Heavy as a first step. It seems to work well in improving the change for most.

 

KB

[bigbikerrick]

I know exactly what you mean.  I've got a pile of wore out parts that used to be a V11 with 12K kms on it.  If it isn't wore out, it's leaking.

 

Rj

62795[/snapback]

What do you mean by a pile of wore out parts? do you mean your v 11 is no longer usable? man., that sounds scary! Say it isnt so, say it isnt so...

[badmotogoozer]

pile of parts - engine in frame sitting on shop stand. Began early summer when I decided to strip down to transmission to fix transmission seal leak (AGAIN). Also needed rear tire. Should have been a weekend project. took all weekend just to get rear axle out. Everything rusted and seized together. No grease anywhere. Got worse from there. All bearings fubar - wheels, drive, headstock. Not a lick of grease from factory. I almost never ride in the rain - bike kept secure and dry.

 

The amount of parts to replace/rework quickly became overwhelming and I shelved the whole thing out of disgust.

 

Would have been nice if my dealer had said "better take it all apart and greaseit" when I bought it instead of "you should wax it".

 

Mistakenly, I let the dealer take care of things as they arose... not too pleased with their performance either.

 

It will be a winter project to get it all together by spring - then I'll have to deal with why the pig has always run like shite.

 

Rj

[Guest Nogbad]

Well, I guess I am one of the lucky ones. My 2000 V11 now has 10600 miles on, always starts on the button and is getting noticeably smoother with miles. The harsh ride seems to have been sorted by my plucking up the courage to mess with the suspension settings.

 

Problems I have had:

 

Bad running and no torque - fixed by professional dyno tune at 4000 miles

Vibes developing at 8000 miles - fixed myself by careful TB balancing

Partially seized axle - fixed by me at 8200 miles for a tyre change.

Rear indicator stopped working - cleaned bulb and contacts with pan scourer.

Rear brake pads worn out at 8200 miles - fixed myself.

Front alternator oil seal leaking at 10,000 miles - fixed successfully myself after encouragement from on here.

 

I have had dealer services till now, but I have decided to do all that myself in future as it's so easy.

 

I like this bike. It has taken a lot longer to get used to than other bikes I have had, but it's a unique ride, and there is enough performance to satisfy me. It looks great, and the finish, whilst not that good, is comparable to the finish on BMW 1150s of the same age and mileage. I know people who have had Friday afternoon beemers, and they are at least as bad a money pit as a bad V11 if not worse.

 

If you look on the other Guzzi sites, you will find plenty stories of starship mileage in the face of benign neglect of lube quality, servicing etc. etc. At least as many good experiences as bad. Personally, I think my V11 is going to prove the most reliable and cheap to run heavyweight bike I have ever had.

 

I don't cosset it, and I ride in bad weather regularly (this is England after all). I intend to maintain it properly, keep it standard, and let it develop that patina of age and use. When it is properly worn out, and I feel ready for something new, it will be gone.