Ducati Sport classics

[Lex]

I've been toward the front of the line criticizing Pierre T. at Ducati, specifically about the Multistrada and the "Sport Classis".

 

I'm still no fan of the looks of the Multistrada's sytling but it works so well I don't care. Especially after Trevor Dunn at Pro Italia Santa Barbara did some work on the exhaust and ECU of my bike, YEE-HAW!

 

Back to the subject, I just saw the Paul Smart and the Sport (still no sign of the GT) from the Sport Classic line at Pro Italia and I take back all the bad things I said about them. These things are gorgeous IRL. If Paul Smart is still on this list I hope to has his order in, at least in the US they are sold out.

 

Anybody (and by that I mean Moto Guzzi) looking to exploit the classic sport bike nitch better work very hard. The Sport Classics have the same Desmodue DS engine as my Multistrada, quiet, smooth and generally running like a stocker but putting out a touch over 100 RWHP and getting 38 to 42 MPG. Did I mention good warranty support? About the only negative is the silly demo systems but I guess nothing is perfect.

 

Lex

[Guzzirider]

I have seen them in the flesh and they are gorgeous- just been released in the UK and unlike the Greasedpig they are available and for sale in numbers.

 

The only weird thing is the placement of the rear monoshock on the side of the bike- but fair play to Ducati for daring to be a bit different with this.

 

The silver Paul Smart is beautiful.

 

Guy

[big J]

The desmodue engines I've seen put out almost exactly the same power as a V11 with Mistrals, PC111, drilled airbox.

Dynotuned Multistradas w/ pipes-85rwhp.

Observed, Dynojet tuning centre, Dublin.

[belfastguzzi]

Pierre T.

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"To be honest, I'm sick of designing bikes around V-twins"

 

– the rest of the interview is interesting too.

[Lex]

The desmodue engines I've seen put out almost exactly the same power as a V11 with Mistrals, PC111, drilled airbox.

Dynotuned Multistradas w/ pipes-85rwhp.

Observed, Dynojet tuning centre, Dublin.

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Big J,

 

My bike has the "pre-muffler" removed and replaced with a simple (and customer made, really beautiful work*) 2 into 1 collector. Stock air box, filter and main muffler. With the pipe and the ECU work Trevor said it was pulling 102 HP at the rear wheel. All I can say is that it is much faster than my Stucchi X-piped, Staintune muffled, relieved air box, PCIII'ed V11. Being a bunch lighter doesn't hurt but for what the seat of the pants dyno is worth (OK, not much) the Duck is considerably stronger than the Goose. I will say the Guzzi sounds better, I don't know why but the low pitched Guzzi sounds better then the higher pitched Desmodue my ear.

 

I still enjoy the V11 but it feels like a really cool antique next to the Ducati, sorry guys. If Guzzi wants to compete (and I hope they will) they better be working late, coming in on the weekends and generally trying very hard. The Ducati is not perfect, far from it, but they got the important stuff right, very right.

 

Lex

 

*A prototype of an aftermarket part Pro Italia is developing.

[droydx]

Yeah your'e most likely right about the Ducati's but I'd rather have my left nut removed than to ever deal with Trevor Dunn again. Hopefully he's been co-opted by the Pro-Italia corporaton so with luck, you'll only have to deal with the "Nice Trevor".

 

Fool me once, fool me twice...

[Steve G.]

Say what you will about the desmo system, Ducati has played it to a tee using it in sales of it's bikes as unique.

Pierre Terblanche's history at Ducati has not impressed me. I will give him a bit of credit [?] by saying it is next to impossible to design a bike worthy of replacing the 916-996 series. But his rendition of the SS series has been an utter failure, with 2001 machines still floundering on showroom floors. Totally BUTT ugly. The Multistrada? I just don't know guys. It really is difficult to look at. Yeah I'm sure it's a great bike, but come on!!

So you have a designer who is running out of ideas, [and maybe confidence in himself and his bosses] so what does one do? Copy successfull designs from the past. Hence the Paul Smart, etc.

They really are lovely bikes, and if I had never owned a belt drive Ducati, I would probably already have a deposit on one. But Ducati belt drive ownership can [and was for me] be a very painfull and frustrating experience. The desmo system is Ducati's savior, and curse at the same time.

So we know that Ducati will sell every one of these things very fast. They will be very popular. Moto Guzzi must do the same thing, AGAIN. The V11 is clearly a loose copy of the V7 Sport. They need to expand on this. Keep the Tonti in production, and make neo replicas of Eldorado's, 1000s, heck even police special's. Or use the Spine frame of they want to go with 6 speeds. Either way it will involve minimal re-tooling the production line, in fact just a phone call to Acerbis to model some new plastic bodywork is all it would take.

Heck, I should be in charge of design.

Ciao, Steve G.

[Guest goffredo]

My two cents on the Sport Classics:

They come too late. The factory is pretty messed up by now. Since the very moment they sent out Terblanche's bikes Ducati has lost money on every single model sold.

Not enough mark-up. All the Multistrada and ST range has been sold undepriced. The Monster range is the only to bring some cash home as the merchandise but not enough to justify the investments of MotoGp and Ducatistores... I fear the Sport Classic range is arriving too late. And some models will be fashionable and ridden for a short time only (try ride with handlebar at the same height of your seat...).

I hope I am wrong but I think it is too late for Ducati, unless they prepare us some big surprise at Milan Show.

 

 

Just my

 

 

G.

[big J]

Big J,

 

My bike has the "pre-muffler" removed and replaced with a simple (and customer made, really beautiful work*) 2 into 1 collector. Stock air box, filter and main muffler. With the pipe and the ECU work Trevor said it was pulling 102 HP at the rear wheel. All I can say is that it is much faster than my Stucchi X-piped, Staintune muffled, relieved air box, PCIII'ed V11. Being a bunch lighter doesn't hurt but for what the seat of the pants dyno is worth (OK, not much) the Duck is considerably stronger than the Goose. I will say the Guzzi sounds better, I don't know why but the low pitched Guzzi sounds better then the higher pitched Desmodue my ear.

 

I still enjoy the V11 but it feels like a really cool antique next to the Ducati, sorry guys. If Guzzi wants to compete (and I hope they will) they better be working late, coming in on the weekends and generally trying very hard. The Ducati is not perfect, far from it, but they got the important stuff right, very right.

 

Lex

 

*A prototype of an aftermarket part Pro Italia is developing.

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Nice one, Lex. When I had the v11 on the dyno, it was interesting to compare a similar type motor, the closest was the multistradas, both of which were just about the same peak hp as my v11. Antiques are fun.

[big J]

SteveG

Nail

hammer

BELT!!!

 

If I had ten bob for every guy who looks at my bike, then tells me he lusted after a Mk1 Le Mans, I'd be a rich man.

 

A modern Mk1, stripped down hot rod would, I reckon, sell by the bucketload.

 

As long as it's got BALLS, not some airyfairy tarts handbag.

[Guzzirider]

SteveG

Nail

hammer

BELT!!!

 

If I had ten bob for every guy who looks at my bike, then tells me he lusted after a Mk1 Le Mans, I'd be a rich man.

 

A modern Mk1, stripped down hot rod would, I reckon, sell by the bucketload.

 

As long as it's got BALLS, not some airyfairy tarts handbag.

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Guzzi was the first manufacturer to do the retro thing- remember the black and orange 1000S which had Le Mans V engine and 40mm carbs?

 

Trouble is nobody bought one (apart from me) so they stopped making them.

 

I would love them to do a similar thing again but it would need to be fast and good handling to sell well.

 

Guy

[big J]

Agreed, Guy but I think the market has changed since then, people dont seem to be quite as hypersports orientated as they were back then. Bikes seem to be accessories to a lot of folk, to be wheeled out on a sunny day and smoked about on. Ducati seem to be targeting this market, I just dont see why Guzzi couldn't do it too, only better.

[Guest Nogbad]

The Duke Sport Classics look nice, but are too expensive and impractical for me. The V11 looks just as good, and is usable as a commuter, tourer and just about as a sports bike too.

 

(Why am I defending my Guzzi like this......?????)

[Guzzirider]

Agreed, Guy but I think the market has changed since then, people dont seem to be quite as hypersports orientated as they were back then. Bikes seem to be accessories to a lot of folk, to be wheeled out on a sunny day and smoked about on. Ducati seem to be targeting this market, I just dont see why Guzzi couldn't do it too, only better.

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Yes my local Jap and Aprilia dealer is complaining that he can't sell many sports bikes and everybody wants either dual sport or roadsters at the moment.

 

If it was the right bike and had the right image, then I am sure it would do well.

 

I think lighter weight, lower seat and a rorty aircooled motor- that will be a Tonti then with a faster engine, and maybe stickier tyres, modern forks and brakes.

 

Keep it as a twin shocker with some decent damping.

 

An updated LM1 like you say.

 

I miss my old 1000S- G953 SGH where art thou?

 

Guy

[Lex]

I've enjoyed reading the responses to this post. I think you guys get it, I just hope the people a Moto Guzzi are as astute. I'm sure the Brevas are great bikes but I just can't see anybody lusting after them like they do for a V11 or did for the Le Mans or will for the Sport Classics. BTW, I find Nogbad's comment about pricing surprising. The Sport 1000 is $10,500 USD, $1,500 less than the Breva 1100, is pricing that much different on the other side of the Atlantic?

 

A Guzzi that look like and old one but runs like a modern bike would be very cool and might be a big seller. The V11 Sport is close but it needs a modern frame and a slightly stronger engine and a general upgrading (better electrical system and a much better ECU to name two things) to be what it could be. My V11 runs really well now but it took two years, a stack of money and a bunch time to get it that way. People on this list might say so what, that is part of the fun, but I think we are a small minority of the buy public. People these days want to buy a bike that runs well, spend a few, or a lot of, bucks paying someone to "customize" it (so it looks like every other one on the road) and never get their hands dirty.

 

goffrodo's comments are interesting because I think he is absolutely correct about some things (the Super Sports are a disaster) but others don't line up with my understanding of Ducati's financial situation. While things are not great Ducati is supposed to break even this year and make a tiny profit next year. While hardly great news that is better then the situation at Aprilia and Moto Guzzi. I do agree whole heartedly that Ducati would be in much better shape it they got Terblanche some help in the styling department I don't think things are quite as dire as you think.

 

To be clear, my new bike is far from perfect. I've grown to love parts of my Multistrada's styling but the front of the fairing is a just not right. The good news is that I don't have to look at the fairing when I am riding it, what I can see looks just fine. OTOH, don't even get me started about the fuel (fool) gauge, this isn't a Honda for sure. Sunday I looked down at the gauge, I had 90 mile to the end of the tank, five minutes later the low fuel light was on and the range to end of tank was "-----" as the low fuel light had come on and cleared all the other read outs! Will some one please kill the person responsible? The good side is when this happened I was riding on a road I had no intension of riding when I set out, this bike just makes you want to keep going and going.

 

Lex