Lemon Law?

[Guest Buck]

Buck- if you havent got rid of it yet  - its too late!!...  

Thanks for the advice, Jim, but the Guzzi stranded me again today. It's definitely a vapor lock problem. Even if insulating the fuel lines helps combat this problem I don't believe it will completely eliminate it. The fuel pump needs to be in the tank to get around the vapor lock problem, which is why they put it there on the '03 models. Even before vapor lock causes misfiring and rough running I notice as the bike gets heat soaked that full throttle yields less performance than normal. Also today the loss of power was accompanied by some pinging, which was a first. It makes me wonder if some of the pinging problems I've read about here are caused by lean mixtures due to low fuel pressure and/or a fuel system that is on the verge of vapor lock any time it's warm outside.

 

The bike had been running so well over the last week I had almost forgotten about it's issues. But today was the "anvil" that broke the camel's back. I was leading a ride of 7 riders + myself from Columbus down through the Hocking hills. More like a high speed tour than a ride. Anyway we stopped by my house for a few minutes to use the facilities. It was about 73 degrees out, and the last 3-4 miles of travel were pretty slow, which allowed the fuel system to get thoroughly heat-soaked. We shut the bikes off for about 10 minutes, and when we restarted them my bike was running poorly. Since I live at the top of a large hill I decided to get moving down the hill, and hopefully the air passing across the bike would cool things enough to straighten it out. Unfortunately there was no such luck. I got to the bottom of the hill and that was where I had to park it. I hitched a ride back to the house and picked up the F650 GS (The RT is at the dealer right now - trans issues ), as it was the only bike left that still ran. Unbelieveable...I own 4 bikes, yet I was reduced to taking a dual sport thumper on a high speed sport bike ride. Fortunately I am a better rider than most of the people I was riding with, so when their R1's and GSXR's left me on the straights for the most part I was able to catch up in the curves. But I sure beat that F650 GS to death trying, and it never missed a lick.

 

When I got home the Le Mans started right up as if nothing had ever been wrong. I've already put in a call to the dealer, and they are calling Guzzi on my behalf tomorrow. There is a reasonably decent chance I'm going to bail out of this situation and purchase something more reliable despite how much I love that bike. I just can't deal with a bi-weekly 4 hour round trip to the dealer to keep a bike running that only has 3000 miles on it.

 

Since I work for a Harley/Buell dealer I'm starting to think the XB9-S Lightning would be a decent replacement. It doesn't pull quite as hard on the low end, but it definitely pulls harder above 5500 RPM. It's also a hundred pounds lighter, handles better, and my cost is significantly less than the Le Mans cost. The down sides are it doesn't look as good, sound as good, or yank my heart strings the way the Le Mans does. It also has a stiff, clunky 5 speed trans, which is difficult to get used to after experiencing the Guzzi 6 speed.

 

Everything is a compromise, isn't it?

[al_roethlisberger]

..hrmm, well I do like the Buell, so that's a bright side. I guess

 

 

But I have to admit I am a bit stymied here. I too have been the victim of the elusive and hard to reproduce "vapor lock" issue, and am a big advocate of it's "existance".... but it was only in the hottest of environs, 100 degrees, and at high altitude(Yosemite) where I ever had it(so far) rear it's head.

 

I have ridden my LeMans long distance through the desert, and regularly here in California in the 90's on blacktop, with no problem.... other than the one incident mentioned above. And even with that Yosemite event, I was able to coast down the hill for about 100 yards, and it started right up after cooling a bit.

 

That being said, I don't doubt your experience, but I think there may be something else conspiring to make your experience worse and/or more extreme. It really sounds like your case is even further removed from "normal" than what many of us have experienced.

 

I still plan to get some of the heat sheilding from Whitney, and maybe try to fabricate a shield for the pump. But so far, my "vapor lock" issues have been only under the most extreme conditions, and was only an inconvenience, not debilitating.

 

...it just makes me wonder if something else is amiss exacerbating the problem, such as the pump itself being flakey, the relay, etc??

 

Good luck with whatever path you choose though. Sorry to hear you are having such a big problem with this.

 

al

[jsciullo]

Buck-

I certainly can understand your issues - this is perfect riding weather and nothing worse than having to sit it out. I hope you are able to work things out with Guzzi. If not, you might want to ping my friend Jeff in Ohio. We removed all the emissions crap and added a Power Commander and I have never had a problem since. He might be able to give you some insight on what he did - Im not that technical. E-Mail me your address and I can forward Jeff's. You are a valued member of this little group of Guzzi riders and I would hate for you to leave us.

Thanks,

Jim

[jsciullo]

Buck-

Another thing. When I had the Guzzi-Q last summer, there were 2-3 guys with new LeMans and all had vapor lock issues to some degree. Im wondering if the fairings on those bikes are blocking air from cooling that would aid vapor and/or the fact that the faring may keep the heat from escaping when you stop??? I have a V11 Sport (Naked) and I know that bike creates a heck of alot of heat but its able to escape. Just a thought.

Jim

[Guest v11eric]

Buck,

sorry to hear all this horror. I supose youre biggest problem is youre dealer! Youre problems are wel known and to fix them one for one is hell.

when youre bike was deliverred after a real check up you would be a happy rider.

 

greets

Eric

01 V11 Lemans

[Guest Buck]

Buck-

I certainly can understand your issues - this is perfect riding weather and nothing worse than having to sit it out.  I hope you are able to work things out with Guzzi.  If not, you might want to ping my friend Jeff in Ohio.  We removed all the emissions crap and added a Power Commander and I have never had a problem since.  He might be able to give you some insight on what he did - Im not that technical.  E-Mail me your address and I can forward Jeff's.  You are a valued member of this little group of Guzzi riders and I would hate for you to leave us.

Thanks,

Jim

Jim-

 

Thanks for all of the input. Actually Jeff and I emailed each other a few months ago. At least I think we're talking about the same Jeff. He told me to let him know if I needed the use of his diagnostic software. Nice guy!

 

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I know I can fix the bike myself. Remove this, tweak that, insulate, add a power commander, etc. I also know that if I do those things I sacrifice my rights under the law. That's a gamble I'm not willing to take right now.

 

As for Eric's comment about the dealer, I must stress that the dealer has been GREAT! I cannot hold them responsible for the vapor lock issue because I haven't given them a chance to fix it. They have cooperated in everything I have asked of them, and have tried to make the best of Moto Guzzi's technical and parts issues.

 

I called MGNA today and gave them the list of issues I've had (3 fairings, 2 speedos, shifter getting stuck at times, cracked side panel, fogging tach), as well as the issues I'm currently experiencing (neutral light intermittent, fogging tach, another bad speedo, vapor lock, paint bubbling off of the block, over 3 months in the shop - I've only owned it for 6 months). They asked me what I wanted from them. I told them that although I really love the bike, I've lost significant faith in it mechanically. I am capable of dealing with gauge issues, the occasional cosmetic things, and even an occasional mechanical issue. But walking is another story. I have a trip to Deal's gap planned in a couple of months, and I really wanted to take the Le Mans. But now I'm afraid to take it any farther than work! I told them that I was interested in seeking Lemon Law compensation. They told me they really want to work with me to keep the bike. Of course they do! They said they would get back to me in 3 days. We'll see what they have to say.

 

Also, according to the person I talked to they are working on a fix for the peeling/bubbling engine paint, but it is unknown when the fix will be available.

 

Since it is likely to get into legal issues from here I won't be posting any more about the process until I have received whatever remedy we decide I'm entitled to, but I will let you all know how it winds up when it's all done.

 

Thanks for your help and suggestions!

[Guest Jaap]

Good Luck!