gearbox

[docc]

I'm reading here references to the "new" versus the "old" 6-speeder.

 

What's the diff? When did they change and how can you tell which you have?

[Guest John T]

Breva and Griso have new box.

No rolling changes to the "old" sport 6 speeders.

[jrt]

Anyone know what specific changes were made with the new boxes?

[Mike Stewart]

Breva and Griso have new box.

No rolling changes to the "old" sport 6 speeders.

65951[/snapback]

 

 

I think there were some changes to the early 6spd gear boxes. When my 2000 V11 Sport was at the dealer for a trans oil leak repair, they put dye in the trans and then road tested it and while on the road test third gear came apart and locked up the transmission (before the recall came out). OK, the bike was in the shop for 3 months because Guzzi said the trans had to be repaired verses replaced. The time problem was due to the trans parts Guzzi was sending the shop. The new parts did not match the older parts and more and more parts had to be ordered to get the gears to match. They also had the trans together and apart 3 times trying to figure out why the new parts would not work with the older parts. Even Guzzi did not know the differences of the newer parts. In the long run it cost Guzzi more to redo the old transmission and the shop got screwed out of alot of time that Guzzi did not pay for.

 

Mike

[docc]

No doubt the earliest Sport owners were big contributors to the 6-speed R&D effort. Scura owners continue in selfless R&D of clutch-flywheel variations.

 

On my Sport's third three month warantee interlude for gearbox issues, the box was replaced. This had the 'final' upgrades of 2003. The '03 and newer certainly seem more reliable , overall, than the earlier units.( leaks, springs, shifting, clutch).

 

Thank a Sport rider!

[beauchemin]

OK, the bike was in the shop for 3 months because Guzzi said the trans had to be repaired verses replaced.  The time problem was due to the trans parts Guzzi was sending the shop. The new parts did not match the older parts and more and more parts had to be ordered to get the gears to match.  They also had the trans together and apart 3 times trying to figure out why the new parts would not work with the older parts. Even Guzzi did not know the differences of the newer parts. In the long run it cost Guzzi more to redo the old transmission and the shop got screwed out of alot of time that Guzzi did not pay for. 

 

Mike

65968[/snapback]

 

Mike - this is enough to test the mettle of any Guzzi fan. I tip my hat.

[bigbikerrick]

I think there were some changes to the early 6spd gear boxes.  When my 2000 V11 Sport was at the dealer for a trans oil leak repair, they put dye in the trans and then road tested it and while on the road test third gear came apart and locked up the transmission (before the recall came out).  OK, the bike was in the shop for 3 months because Guzzi said the trans had to be repaired verses replaced.  The time problem was due to the trans parts Guzzi was sending the shop. The new parts did not match the older parts and more and more parts had to be ordered to get the gears to match.  They also had the trans together and apart 3 times trying to figure out why the new parts would not work with the older parts. Even Guzzi did not know the differences of the newer parts. In the long run it cost Guzzi more to redo the old transmission and the shop got screwed out of alot of time that Guzzi did not pay for. 

 

Mike

65968[/snapback]

Hey Mike, I think this is a prime example of why some dealers are getting fed up with MG and some are giving up their dealer status. My local deales used to have Guzzi as their #1 brand now the showroom is full of, some aprillias, Ducatis of every style some MV agustas, a shitload of scooters,and only 1 Guzzi a 750 breva he cant sell , the owner told me if he didnt love Guzzi bikes so much, he would do away with them completely because of all the bullshiet from MG.

[dlaing]

I suspect there have several iterations of the six speed.

There was one recall, presumably triggered by Mike's bike (gee thanks <_>

For the record that effected bikes made October 1999 to April 2001

VIN range ZGUKRAKR8YM111929 TO ZGUKRAKR11M114435

THE RECALL SAID:

The gearbox shift sleeves for engagement of third to sixth gears can fracture unexpectedly while the motorcycle is in use. Should such a fracture occur, the motorcycle's rear wheel can suddenly stop turning or "lock," resulting in a loss of control of the motorcycle, a crash, personal injury or death.

To remedy this condition, any authorized Moto Guzzi dealer will install new, improved shift rings and a redesigned Cush-drive assembly in your V11 Sport's gearbox.

blah blah blah

 

And then there is the Pawl spring not a recall service notice where some bikes along the line got a spring that was too small for the accompanying boss that it wraps around, so that the spring can bind, break the spring, and leave you stuck in gear, miles from Luigi.

see http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5985&hl=

MG recognizes it in the service bulletin as potentially effecting frame numbers beforeKT111435-KS112350 but it is not a recall.

There are conflicting reports of whether the remedy should be to make the boss smaller or the spring bigger.

 

But yah, the Griso and the Breva appear to have a very different gear box. What about the MGS01????

[Paul Minnaert]

The v11 gearboxes have gone trough a number of changes from 1999> 2004

 

The breva1100/griso box is completly different from the v11 one. The v11 box has split the gears in2 , so 3 gears on one, and 3 on the other. the story is that this makes the box shorter.

 

Now with the breva 1100 box, it seems that they got 6 gears in a row, and still not to long.

If lenght is so important, in the clutch area there are some cm to be found. That was so in the old 5 speed box and still is. Once Moto Bel from france showed how much could be gained there in a daytona, I think at least 2 cm, maybe more.

 

The breva alternator didn't have to be moved on top of the engine because of the lenght, but they needed a stronger alternaltor, to power abs and police communication gear. The brevas front wheel is far from the engine. The old alternator would fit.

[pete roper]

The 'New' box has also reverted to using a shift drum rather than the cam plates used in the 'Old' box and primary gears are helically cut, (On the Breva at least.). Whether the 'New' box itself is shorter than the 'Old' six speeder I'm not sure, but it looks it. The whole motive unit is considerably more compact than earlier models though due to the alternator re-location, (Which incidentally turns the Breva into a real 'Shin Roaster' in traffic!)

 

Pete

[bigbikerrick]

I suspect there have several iterations of the six speed.

There was one recall, presumably triggered by Mike's bike (gee thanks <_>

For the record that effected bikes made October 1999 to April 2001

VIN range ZGUKRAKR8YM111929 TO ZGUKRAKR11M114435

THE RECALL SAID:

The gearbox shift sleeves for engagement of third to sixth gears can fracture unexpectedly while the motorcycle is in use. Should such a fracture occur, the motorcycle's rear wheel can suddenly stop turning or "lock," resulting in a loss of control of the motorcycle, a crash, personal injury or death.

To remedy this condition, any authorized Moto Guzzi dealer will install new, improved shift rings and a redesigned Cush-drive assembly in your V11 Sport's gearbox.

blah blah blah

 

And then there is the Pawl spring not a recall service notice where some bikes along the line got a spring that was too small for the accompanying boss that it wraps around, so that the spring can bind, break the spring, and leave you stuck in gear, miles from    Luigi.

see http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5985&hl=

MG recognizes it in the service bulletin as potentially effecting frame numbers KT111435-KS112350 but it is not a recall.

There are conflicting reports of whether the remedy should be to make the boss smaller or the spring bigger.

 

But yah, the Griso and the Breva appear to have a very different gear box. What about the MGS01????

65994[/snapback]

Does the gearbox spring problem affect # KT 111435-KS 112350, or is it frame #s BEFORE that range?

[dlaing]

Does the gearbox spring problem affect # KT 111435-KS 112350, or is it frame #s BEFORE that range?

66018[/snapback]

It affects # KT 111435 through KS 112350

So, nothing before # KT 111435

and nothing after # KS 112350

EDIT wait a second!!! KS comes before KT, so I really don't know.

EDIT2 I am really confused!!! Baldini posted THIS.

in this thread....

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5985&hl=

indicates that it is before those numbers

So, every KT after 111435 and every KS after 112350 is probably safe, and all the others are probably at risk, but are NOT definitively affected.

EDIT 3 Rick, thanks for pointing out the word "before" refering to the numbers

[andy york]

If I am correct the new 6 speed box has 2 shafts as opposed to the V11 6 speed taht has 4 shafts. It is a rather complicated box vs the new box with a shift drum ie.. what most every other motorcycle on the road uses. Any changes from year to year on the V11 were not that special...the MGSO1 uses a V11 6 speed with a special machined end case to accept the swingarm mount and various other coolshit to make the suspension work.

 

andy

[Greg Field]

My latest info is that it's a three-shaft box and is actually longer than the "old" six-speed.

[Paul Minnaert]

looks like this inside. To build a short bike wasn't the main design goal with the Breva. It could have been shorther.

What they did right, was to give it a long swingarm, since I have a long swingarm, I'm convinced that it works much better that way.