Fast idle and seat latch springs

[belfastguzzi]

...in fine fettle.

 

On a whim I decided to look at the spring swap idea that others have tried. The V.11 fast idle lever does not stay on, as the spring is too strong – and people often have trouble with the seat-opening latch not functioning efficiently. There is a theory that the seat latch spring was fitted in the place of the fast idle spring and vise-versa. I may be naive, but I still can't believe that this could happen at , though people have found that swapping the springs around does bring an improvement.

 

Looking at my bike, I noticed a few things that could be fixed to make the mechanisms work better. Of course my bike parts may be different to others, but anyway, here's what worked for me. First the easy one: the seat latch.

 

The seat latch operating cable inner is about 5mm too long! No wonder the latch isn't very responsive.

 

 

So when the key is turned, the latch only starts to operate towards the middle/end of the key-turn. I think that the spring weight is ok, so I kept the spring as fitted. The easy solution is to put a collar on the free end of the cable so that there is no slack and the key will operate the mechanism straight away and open it fully.

I used a piece of aluminium. The seat latch now works perfectly. As the whole cable is one piece with fixed nipples and there is no means of adjusting the inner or outer, I suspect that others will be in the same situation: unless there are wild variations in manufacture.

 

Next, the fast idle mechanism...

[Guest ratchethack]

Nicely done, Belfast. Extracting "fully arsed" from the jaws of "half arsed"!

 

This shall henceforth be my Guzzi Quest...

 

I did the same thing on the seat latch cable a few years back, before cutting down the throttle advance spring, and before the spring swap. Works like a Champ.

 

BTW - Who was the Masked Man who came up with "the swap"?

[belfastguzzi]

Undoubtedly the fast-idle lever spring is too strong. It won't let the lever stay on. I changed the heavy spring for two lighter springs

but I could see that there is more to this than just the spring spec. The whole fast-idle (choke) mechanism is badly set-up. It could justifiably be described as half-a*sed.

 

The handlebar-lever cable pulls on a cam-plate. This rotates and the cam (2) pushes on an accelerator lever pin (1). (3) is a stop-pin that the spring pushes the plate back against. Here the mechanism is in the OFF position.

 

This is the fast-idle lever ON position of the mechanism. The cam face (2) is just about to touch the accelerator (1). The accelerator pin has a rotating sleeve.

(3) is the distance that the plate has moved away from the stop-pin.

 

The lever is FULLY ON. (1) is as far as the cam moves against the pin and pushes the accelerator lever. (2) is the full gap between plate and stop-pin. The cam only just touches the accelerator pin at the very end of its sleeve – and this is after I had bent the accelerator lever upwards to allow a little more contact!

 

The full movement of the handlebar fast-idle lever and the cam plate results in only a small movement of the accelerator. The cam face is not in contact with the accelerator for about half its operation. In fact, 20mm of cable movement produces only 2mm of action at the cam/accelerator.

 

I made an aluminium sleeve for the pin, to close the gap between the accelerator pin and the cam face.

 

Fast-idle lever OFF. Plate held back agaist stop-pin by spring(s).

 

The camera actually shows two recessed screws. These might provide some adjustment so that the cam can be better positioned, without having to put an extra sleeve on.

Does anyone know?

I can't get at the bike out in the dark to try this at the moment. (And it's way past bedtime.)

 

Fast-idle is off. (2) is the stop-pin. With the extra sleeve, the cam is now just about to contact the accelerator (1), right from the beginning of its operation, rather than half-way along.

(3) The cable outer does not line-up well with its stop, which could do with being bent into a better position.

 

The fast idle lever is on. The spring is compressed, but balances the friction to hold position.

(1) shows the two recessed screws. Do these provide any adjustment?

(2) shows the sleeved accelerator-pin and

(3) the length of travel the cam now operates effectively over.

(4) shows the gap between plate and stop-pin in this ON position and also shows the compressed spring.

 

This is the fast-idle cam plate. It is in the OFF position, against the stop-pin. You can see the bad fit and bad line of the cable.

 

Side-view. Fully ON, with accelerator pin at end of cam on the left side of picture.

 

No labels for these numbers.

 

The fast-idle (choke) lever at the handlebar now operates fully and it stays in position.

You could argue that the full-length of operation isn't needed and the original couple of milimetres is enough. Set-up with these modifications, my handlebar lever now smoothly sets the engine speed at anywhere between 1,100 rpm on the clock (lever off) and just under 6,000 rpm on the clock (lever fully on) – and it stays where it's set.

Cruise control?

[Guest ratchethack]

Belfast, I have a slight indigestion problem now from all the spaghetti , but I think you'll find that the whole mess can be solved by adjusting the cam follower roller with the downward-facing screw (its' the one underneath the yellow paint in your photo's #2, 8, 9, 10, 12, and 13), so that the roller is just able to spin freely when the handlebar lever is in the fully non-advanced position. When it's adjusted properly, there's no need for a sleeve on the roller.

 

This brings to mind the Judge with the seeing-eye dog, the Group "W" bench, and the 27 color photo's with the circles and arrows with a paragraph on the back of each one, explaining how each one was to be used as evidence against us.

 

With apologies to Arlo.

 

EDIT: Your #1 screws fasten the TB's to the stay that anchors the TB's so they don't get out of synch via the throttle linkage rod.

[belfastguzzi]

I think you'll find that the whole mess can be solved by adjusting the cam follower roller with the downward-facing screw (its' the one underneath the yellow paint in your photo's #2, 8, 9, 10, 12, and 13), so that the roller is just able to spin freely when the handlebar lever is in the fully non-advanced position.  When it's adjusted properly, there's no need for a sleeve on the roller.

66181[/snapback]

Ahh. Good man. Have you done this? Can you too idle(!) at 6,000rpm and frighten the neighbours?

- Or what sort of rev. range have you got?

 

At least it didn't take too long doing the job. It has taken much longer putting the photos on the web and writing/editing this post.

 

Presumably the yellow paint means that someone went through the motions of setting this up at the factory – setting it up half-*rs*d that is! Groan, snort.

[edge]

I think the spring swap solution took less time than digesting the thread

 

But I must say nothing wrong with the solution if it works though

[belfastguzzi]

EDIT:  Your #1 screws fasten the TB's to the stay that anchors the TB's so they don't get out of synch via the throttle connecting rod.

66181[/snapback]

I think I need a bike lift so that I can see up underneath this stuff when working at it

 

or I need to work in daylight.

[Guest ratchethack]

Ahh. Good man. Have you done this?

Yes.

Can you too idle(!) at 6,000rpm and frighten the neighbours?

- Or what sort of rev. range have you got?

I can definitely frighten the neighbors , don't need the Guzzi for that , and don't know what range I've got, but it must be more'n enough 'cause I don't use all of it.

At least it didn't take too long doing the job. It has taken much longer putting the photos on the web and writing/editing  this post.

Yeah, it must've taken you ten times the time it took me to adjust it and be done with it!!

Presumably the yellow paint means that someone went through the motions of setting this up at the factory – setting it up half-*rs*d that is! Groan, snort.

First thing I did when I got mine was to zip every bit of that crap off with laquer thinner and get 'er tuned up properly!!!

[belfastguzzi]

I think the spring swap solution took less time than digesting the thread   

 

66184[/snapback]

Yeah, the spring bit is straightforward.

 

The rest was about adjusting the set-up so that there is full, effective operation over the length of idle-lever travel. My bike may just have been particularly badly set-up at the factory though.

As Ratchet has explained that there are adjustment screws, this gives scope for a little bit of or lots of or even no at set-up. There's probably variation in cam contact from bike to bike, but what about the height of the contact? Do thay all only scrape along the top of the rotating sleeve, as mine did?

[Guest ratchethack]

what about the height of the contact? Do thay all only scrape along the top of the rotating sleeve, as mine did?

Eh? From the photo's it looks like the roller would line up - if you took off the aluminium sleeve, that is.

[edge]

Do thay all only scrape along the top of the rotating sleeve, as mine did?

66187[/snapback]

 

I think I was one of the lucky ones, no contact and it was just a matter of too much spring tension and/or too litle non-adjustable fast idle lever friction

[docc]

It makes me reflect, less than fondly, on my dealer's comment as I picked the bike up from some extensive warrantee service: Straddling the bike to pull away I roll the 'fast idle' lever on for the cold start. "That doesn't work", says the good natured fellow who's took my 12K USD. "No,eh?, well, I'll have a look at it at home then."

 

With a bit of experience in bicycle shops ( Hey! Orville and Wilbur flew , didn't they?), I drew the cable through and tightened the stop, and rotated the cam to near contact with the throttle plate. Actuating the lever gives me some 1800 rpm. Not a squeeler but enough to sustain cold idle for a few seconds while I get my kit together.

 

If it weren't for the yellow paint I would never have found all the p.roper points of adjustment!

[belfastguzzi]

Eh?  From the photo's it looks like the roller would line up fine (if you took off the aluminium sleeve, that is).  

66188[/snapback]

see the first three photos (without sleeve) – contact is right at the top and that's after giving it a slight bend up.

[Guest ratchethack]

That's how mine looks. I reckon it's a good thing you bent yours up, though - must've been out o' whack.

[Guest Nogbad]

Belfast - It's over. I'm never following your fettling regime again after this.

 

Here, Present for you!