2004 LeMans TPS adjust vaulue?

[txrider]

I'm setting the TPS on my 2004 and consider maybe the Titanio Racing ECU on it requires a different value than the 150mv called out for conventional oem ECUs. A reputable in-the-know dealer responded to my inquirey that the new ECUs call for 2.3 degrees setting on the TPS (I'm guessing determined with the MG diagnostics tool) and that they are uncertain what this is equivalent to in millivolts.

 

Does anyone know what millivolt value is correct for the above ECU on a late model bike? Fortunately I took a baseline reading before I loosened the TPS hold downs but have no idea whether it was correct( 415mv with throttle body disconnected from linkage, fast idle, etc.).

 

Edit- That 415mv reading is with the idle stop in as-found adjustment. Not a good TPS stand alone number.

[Mr. Bean]

Txrider,

 

I have put my poor 04 Ballabio through many tuning settings. I found the best setup is what the Moto Guzzi manual states. (Go figure <_ base setting on the tps. this is done with linkage disconnected throttle stop screw backed out and cam pulled off. make sure fully closed. i find it well worth taking time to really get just right. fiddly but stay course until spot-on>

 

After this is set up I reconnect everything and set the idle to 3.4 degrees on the diagnostic software. This is equivilant to 425mv on my bike.

 

The second item I found to be critical to getting my bike running smoothly was to re-synch the throttle rod going between the throttles. On mine it was off making it impossible to get the throttles synched at anything but one RPM setting.

 

The bike now idles at 1050 +-50rpm with the idle bypass screws open 1/4 turn.

 

Randy

[Mr. Bean]

I double checked the manual this morning and can't find any references to the "racing" ECU. I assume since it's the same computer and all, that just the map is different. I have always heard it is plug and play and doesn't require any additional tuning when one installs the pipes and the ECU from the kit.

 

Randy

[txrider]

I double checked the manual this morning and can't find any references to the "racing" ECU.  I assume since it's the same computer and all, that just the map is different.  I have always heard it is plug and play and doesn't require any additional tuning when one installs the pipes and the ECU from the kit.

 

Randy

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I gotcha and thanks for the response. As for the TPS setting adjustment I've seen fiddly but that wins the prize. I have an install sheet for the Titanio ECU on the way, I think. That should confirm the 150mv (or not). When I get that I'll post the numbers for those of you that have the Titanio ECU.

[docc]

Isn't it 150mV +/- 15? I ran my Sport at 165mV for a long time. Thought I would try to eek out a little more range and backed it off to 150. It just doesn't run as well and the mileage is no better.

 

Next tune I'm back to 165.

 

Also I learned my Veglia tach is 300 rpm optimistic. This alone runs the range on the fat side unless compensated for. I learned this from the Guzzi "dashboard" program.

[luhbo]

I have the sheets, unfortunately at home, so this time no precise values, sorry. What should be interesting for you is, that they say for both versions: if you cannot reach the idle values with the given flap settings, then and only then you should:

 

first: rearange the TPS so that it shows 150 mV with the flap closed (0 degrees)

second: inform the quality manager (sic!)

 

To me it seems that first the delivered Titanium manual is something official out of the factory (where else can you find quality managers) and second that MG takes the 150 mV value very serious.

 

This night or at least soon I can post the exact values.

 

Hubert

[luhbo]

...

 

This night or at least soon I can post the exact values.

 

Hubert

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Here are the values that I have at hand. The picture shows the values for the V11_MY_2001 and a "How To Do It", unfortunately in Italian. Maybe this helps a bit to get in the right mood

 

The settings are 3.8° ±0.1° or 550 ±0.5mV. Idle 1100 ±50 rpm. CO 4% ±0.5

 

For the 2002/2003 and maybe for the newer bikes as well the settings are:

 

2.9° ±0.1° or 465 ±0,5 mV. Idle 1100 ±50 rpm. CO 4% ±0.5

[txrider]

Here are the values that I have at hand. The picture shows the values for the V11_MY_2001 and a "How To Do It", unfortunately in Italian. Maybe this helps a bit to get in the right mood

 

The settings are 3.8° ±0.1° or 550 ±0.5mV. Idle 1100 ±50 rpm. CO 4% ±0.5

 

For the 2002/2003 and maybe for the newer bikes as well the settings are:

 

2.9° ±0.1° or 465 ±0,5 mV. Idle 1100 ±50 rpm. CO 4% ±0.5

66910[/snapback]

 

Luhbo, thanks for the information. This checks out with the faxed copy of the Titanio kit instructions MPH was kind enough to provide. So the numbers are TPS adjust value- 150 mv, idle stop screw, r/h side 465mv.

[Guest ratchethack]

John, aren't you running a PC III? It makes a difference on the TPS setting. If so, DynoJet Rep Todd E recommends setting the TPS at 500 - 525 mV (TBs connected) at idle (1100 - 1200 RPM) and ignore the zero-degree setting.

[txrider]

John, aren't you running a PC III?  It makes a difference on the TPS setting.  If so, DynoJet Rep Todd E recommends setting the TPS at 500 - 525 mV (TBs connected) at idle (1100 - 1200 RPM) and ignore the zero-degree setting.

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No, no PCIII. Just the Ti ECU. I had some slight lean surging issues in hot weather riding but otherwise works fine as is with the Staintunes.

[luhbo]

.....

 

and ignore the zero-degree setting.

 

66951[/snapback]

 

 

This is technically spoken nonsense! You always must make sure that your index value is correct when you want your ecu to be working correctly. The more as PCIII still is unable to deal with the ignition timing.

 

Probably it will work anyway, but all the bikes that are on the road are working somehow. I thought that we want more.

 

Hubert

[Guest ratchethack]

This is technically spoken nonsense! You always must make sure that your index value is correct when you want your ecu to be working correctly.

Hmmmm, evidently there are practical alternatives to indexing that work very well. I've done it this way since installing the PC III & she runs like a Champ - decent mileage, smooth power delivery, no flat spots, idles without stumbling, etc...in fact, I can't imagine how it could run any better. Timing has nothing to do with it.

 

Maybe Todd will chime in. Todd, you out there?

 

...all the bikes that are on the road are working somehow. I thought that we want more.

Sorry, I'm not quite following you here, Hubert.

[luhbo]

If your bike runs great then this does not automatically imply that the zero degree flap reading is not important. You could only say that your TPS was properly adjusted, because you never had problems with it.

 

We usually don't have a closed system on our bikes, so for informations about the actual engine load only rpm and flap opening can be used. Flap opening is directly linked to the TPS reading. That's so trivial that I'm afraid we both are talking the same, just don't understand each other.

 

Ignition timing is of course dependend of engine load, not of RPM only.

 

If Todd at Guzzitech sends you the ultimate PCIII map exactly for your special setup without ever having seen your bike, then this can only work as intended if your TPS settings are exactly the same as on the bike the map was developed for. Usually these settings are 150 mV at 0° flap opening.

 

...all the bikes that are on the road are working somehow. I thought that we want more.

 

I have a spare ecu from a Ducati 900SS. Guess what, the V11 runs with it, a bit lean of course, but carefully used it will work for bringing me home if shit should happen. This is what I call "is working somehow", in this case on a very low level I have to admit.

 

Hubert

[Guest ratchethack]

If your bike runs great then this does not automatically imply that the zero degree flap reading is not important. You could only say that your TPS was properly adjusted, because you never had problems with it.

 

If Todd at Guzzitech sends you the ultimate PCIII map exactly for your special setup without ever having seen your bike, then this can only work as intended if your TPS settings are exactly the same as on the bike the map was developed for.

I think what's most important is an indexing method that provides the best results. Todd has evidently arrived at a "practical" way of indexing borne of long experience. Last I knew, his personal library of maps for the V11 was considerably more extensive than Dynojet's, and most of what Dynojet has came from Todd. So I'd be a little more careful about characterizing Todd's method as "nonsense", technically or otherwise.

 

Both indexing methods "peg" the degree of butterfly opening to the TPS. In my case, I've re-set my TPS literally dozens of times this way since day 1 with the PC III, as the bike broke in, re-setting idle, balance, air bypass, etc. I'm running a "standard off the shelf" map that Todd recommended for my config. Todd personally loaded my map from his laptop.

 

Roger the inherent bike-to-bike variances that can be significant when doing a "same map for similar config". Fortunately enough for me I guess, the differences apparently just don't happen to be significant in my case. If I remember right, Todd knows the bike my map was created for. In this case, the TPS on that bike was likely set the same way. In any case, precision here is impossible. Readings will fluctuate around a "mean", and will vary a bit with temperature. In addition, my experience has been that the "mean" TPS setting can be varied +/- ~30 mV without any noticeable changes other than mileage.

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV

[dlaing]

in my greater than humble opinon, the 150mV with butterfly valve completely closed and linkage detached, is important because it acts as a baseline for everything else.

If you start messing with the TPS at idle with linkage attached, pursuing 500-525mV, possibly you will make the bike run better, and possibly worse, but if you head away from the 150mV baseline number, you will be heading away from what the factory intended.

If you plan on spending money for a dyno tuning session, you should get your bike tuned directly to a spec that you can reset to. Reseting to the TPS at idle is vague and will make it more difficult to repeat obtaining the benefits of the map that you paid hundreds of dollars for.

If want to get serious and fully benefit from re-mapping, set TPS with linkage detatched, going just by the idle TPS setting is lazy and wreckless.

Using the 150mV setting is ideal, but of course not critical as your map is going to change anyway. At the very least, you should note your TPS setting with linkage detached before you get it dyno tuned, so that your map will be useful after future tune-ups. Other tune-up specs are also critical, like valve clearance, throttle body balance, bypass screws, and maybe even the TPS setting at idle.

 

If you are not going to remap, then a common trick is to enrichen the mixture by setting the TPS to a number higher than 150mV

 

If you are going to use one of Todd's downloaded maps, then do what he says.