v11 scura clutch failure

[timnic]

I rang my dealer in brisbane and he quoted me $2,600 parts only to change over to the twin plate. There has to be a better deal than this. Someone please respond and help out us Aust. Scura riders

 

To be honest that doesn't sound too bad. Sorry, but a new RAM clutch purchased locally will be in the $1100 range. .

 

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Pete

It looks like to me I would be a lot better off buying a clutch from Germany. Even with shipping costs I'm going to come out well over $1000 in front. BTW Tommy quoted approx. $500 labor which sounded reasonable to me. It was $2600 parts only

 

Tim

[Guest hlancee]

Lemme know if you need another voice at MG or MGNA.  I'll gladly add my concerns

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The nuymber of my scura is S 266.

framenumber is ZGUKS00002m111849.

 

the bolts that mount the carrier to the crankshaft were surprisingly loose.

I had expected them to be tighter.

 

Thank you kindly for all your replies and i am sorry that I did not reply sooner

but I was unable to do so.

 

If I need to make a stronger case to get this clutch issue resolved I will gladly make use of any information / help that comes my way.

 

The unofficial word from moto guzzi australia is that they are aware of clutch failures in europe but this doe not necessarily imply that they will accept responsibility.

[guzzi323]

the bolts that mount the carrier to the crankshaft were surprisingly loose.

Thank you for getting back to us with that information. Now if we could onyl find out if it's a matter of improper assembly or some design/material fault with the flywheel.

I guess next time I'm in there I'll replace the entire assembly with a RAM unit. Their flywheels apparently have been updated from what's fitted to our bikes, but there's no official reason why they changed. I haven't heard of any problems with the aftermarket RAM kits and they've been available for years so I'm thinking their probably the ticket.

 

Glad you failure was catastrophic like some of them.

 

johnk

[Ballacraine]

OK A bit of lateral thinking ...trying to look at all options here...

 

Is the twin plate clutch / flywheel assembly from the earlier Guzzi's still compatible with the V11.

 

Say for instance, would you be able to put a Tonti Le Mans clutch in as a direct swap?

 

Nige.

[Skeeve]

Thank you for getting back to us with that information. Now if we could onyl find out if it's a matter of improper assembly or some design/material fault with the flywheel.

johnk

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It certainly would be helpful to see some closeup pix of:

 

A: the complete, unexploded Guzzi Al-clutch

B: the aftermarket RAM Al-clutch

C: the failure modes of the Guzzi Al-clutch

 

Given those, a working hypothesis of what's failing could probably be come up with readily. Off the top, I suspect that either RAM is using the same design w/ a different alloy, or they selected a few key operations in the machining process & changed some hole diameters or properly radiused some cuts. Probably the last one; aluminum really doesn't like stress risers, from my (quite limited) experience.

 

Best o' luck, Scura & Tenni owners...

[Ballacraine]

Not only that, but it seems that the later RAM clutches carry a more substantial boss. It looks like they quietly modified it without making a big song and dance about it.

 

Another contributory element, I suspect that Pete may well be onto it with his bolts slacking off as the washers bite into aluminium hypothesis. That and perhaps aluminium is not the best material of choice for the application in the first place.

 

Just another two pennorth

 

Nige

[Baldini]

...seems that the later RAM clutches carry a more substantial boss......

 

....bolts slacking off as the washers bite into aluminium hypothesis. ....

 

How do you know boss thickness is changed?

 

Roberto's (broken) clutch photos clearly shows the steel ring present between the bolts & the flywheel. Of course the ring itself may be a stress raiser.

 

Tonti clutches: Was wondering about that too. I think crankshaft end is same but not sure about distances between crank & input shaft. Paul fitted a 6 speed to 1100 sport...

 

KB

[Paul Minnaert]

Tonti clutches: Was wondering about that too. I think crankshaft end is same but not sure about distances between crank & input shaft. Paul fitted a 6 speed to 1100 sport...

 

NOT a 1100 sport!!

 

But replacing the 1 plate with 2 plates, needs also the splinegear that's mounted on the gearbox. Because it's longer. But as long as you use a clutch that has the splines like the newer 2 plate clutches the one from v11 sport or le mans will fit.

[Baldini]

...NOT a 1100 sport!!....

 

OOOPPS!!! Sorry. .....welll reeeally....Daytona..Sport....bellhousing & contents are same...

 

KB

 

Anyhow - I don't wanna go back to one of them heavy ol things.....

[DeBenGuzzi]

I have a Q, NOW I'm not a Big city Mechanic .... but why did they ever use these single plates ? what is the advantage in using them in the scuras and Rossas is there something I'm missing but I would think a dual plate would be a better one.

[richard100t]

Well Ben they are a little lighter & spin a little faster. Plus its supposed to pull easier at the lever I think. Having never ridden a dual plate clutch Goose I wouldnt know. I personally have gotten to like the rattle in neutral of the single plate.

[Ballacraine]

How do you know boss thickness is changed?

 

Roberto's (broken) clutch photos clearly shows the steel ring present between the bolts & the flywheel. Of course the ring itself may be a stress raiser.

 

Tonti clutches: Was wondering about that too. I think crankshaft end is same but not sure about distances between crank & input shaft. Paul fitted a 6 speed to 1100 sport...

 

KB

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Buried in one of these threads there was a photo of a 'modern' RAM unit which showed the boss profile was noticeably thicker than a shot of one from a broken Scura.

 

Agreed. That steel ring would have to be properly deburred and prefrably radiused to prevent causing stress points.

 

Thanks for additional info re the Tonti clutches....Looks like we could do with more input on that from the gurus..... ( I hope they will pick up on this )

 

Nige.

[Ballacraine]

NOT a 1100 sport!!

 

But replacing the 1 plate with 2 plates, needs also the splinegear that's mounted on the gearbox. Because it's longer. But as long as you use a clutch that has the splines like the newer 2 plate clutches the one from v11 sport or le mans will fit.

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What are the chances of a hybrid unit?

 

Single plate tranny end....

 

Tonti flywheel engine end?

 

Nige.

[DeBenGuzzi]

Well Ben they are a little lighter & spin a little faster. Plus its supposed to pull easier at the lever I think. Having never ridden a dual plate clutch Goose I wouldnt know. I personally have gotten to like the rattle in neutral of the single plate.

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I like the rattle too but it only does it with the clutch pulled in. But makes ppl look at you like "OMG is it gonna blow?"

[Ballacraine]

I like the rattle too but it only does it with the clutch pulled in. But makes ppl look at you like "OMG is it gonna blow?" 

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I think it was Pete, or it may have been Paul, that explained that the difference is the dual plate rattles when it is disengaged ( Clutch Assembly Rattle) and the single plate rattle when engaged in neutral ( Transmission Rattle exascerbated by a lightened flywheel especially when the tickover is too low).

 

IIRC

 

Nige.