Tunedit - Tuneboy

[dlaing]

Hey Carl, should I use a 50,000BTU propane torch or my OEM Guzzi batteries arc welding capabilites to solder your My15M ECU?

[mark.gilmore]

That should get his attention soon enough.

[Skeeve]

Only if the PC module has access to the timing signal. Otherwise it would have to wait for the processed spark pulse from the ECU by which time it is a tad late.

67805[/snapback]

 

Just doing some quick math, it looks like at 10k rpm (which most Guzzis should never see!) it takes about 16 microseconds for the engine to rotate one degree. I'm not an EE so I don't know much about the latency involved, but I think that means that even a slow 8mhz chip would have 2 clock cycles to think about the signal before it would even delay the ignition timing by 1 deg. Since 32mhz embedded cpus are commonplace now, I'm not certain that it would be too hard for the delay side of this question to be easily doable w/o negative f/x.

 

That still leaves the flux capacitor solution needed for advancing the timing, tho'!

 

Ride on!

[Cliff]

Your calculations are accurate but meaningless. If that was how you would design an ignition system you would require a pentium Ghz processor.

 

Truth is an 8 bit processor is more than adequate unless you also want to add a web browser and a WAN. I run my 8 bit chip at 8Mhz. Half of what the chip is capable of.

 

The main thing is you do not generate the output pulse in immediate response to an event.

 

In the case of the WM15/16 you are getting trigger events every 15 degrees. Lets say you want 20 degrees advance. You probably would queue the event at the 30 degree pulse. Calculate the time delay required, factoring any latency you expect. This delay could even be precalculated. Many chips have hardware on the timers that will generate pulses for you without the CPU doing anything however I prefer to use an interrupt. It's more flexible and not tied to any particular hardware.

[Guest wmcdonal]

Here are some simple facts.

 

If someone adjusts the fuel mixture without some way to measure the result it is a guess and as such may be wrong. The same rule applies to a PowerCommander, reflash of the WM ECU or use of the MY15M.

 

Some people say that having access to all the maps in the ECU is a waste of time, this seems to always come from someone selling a tool that does not.

As an example. Say the air temp trim for 100 degree days is out by 10%, but the trim for 80 degree air temp is correct.

A PC cannot fix this. If you dyno the bike on an 80 degree day it will be out by 10% on the 100 degree day.

The Webber does have problems with the standard correction factors, this can be seen if you compare the Titanium map with the standard LeMans map.

 

To answer a couple of PCIII questions.

The way that DynoJet alter ignition timing is to phase shift the signal from the cam sensor to the ECU. Delay the signal to retard the ignition or send the signal early to advance it. To send the signal early the PCIII ignition module needs to know what is coming next. This is easy enough to work out.

The time shift in injector pulse is so small it makes no difference to the running of the motor. The fact that they calculate injector trims based on last injector pulse and the fact that they disregard injector dead time does cause problems.

[Guest trispeed]

help! I've forgotten what the original problem was!

we could always just ride the things.

[Skeeve]

Your calculations are accurate but meaningless.

 

Tell me something I don't know!

 

Truth is an 8 bit processor is more than adequate unless you also want to add a web browser and a WAN.  I run my 8 bit chip at 8Mhz. Half of what the chip is capable of.

 

See? That's about what I thought...

 

Thanks for jumping into this morass, Cliff! We appreciate the insight...

 

[dlaing]

help! I've forgotten what the original problem was!

we could always just ride the things.

68963[/snapback]

Guzzis are for riding AND tinkering!

The original problem is that the factory map is not very good and if you modify exhausts, etc., it will be even less good.

Sure you install a pair of $800 cans and the bike MAY run OK, or you can throw in a littlle over $300 and get a PCIII or TuneBoy, and make it run much better.

Go read the PCIII testimonials on GuzziTech.com

TuneEdit and PCIII can both remap the fuel, but TuneEdit does not have all the features of PCIII and PCIII does not have all features of TuneEdit.

Which is better is your choice.

And there are other choices, like FIM Ultimap, Direct Link, and Cliff's MY15M

For me, Tuneboy is the obvious choice, but I don't fault others for choosing different paths....even just riding the things. (but you don't know what you are missing )

Eventually TuneBoy for Guzzi will include diagnostic software to help you keep the bike running properly, so we can "just ride the things" for longtime

 

WARNING! next week I'll try to provide a technical report on the TuneEdit improvements.

Wayne sent me the newest software, presumably what Hubert is using.

Now mine does not say "Beta" on it anymore

[Skeeve]

...get a PCIII or TuneBoy, and make it run much better.

...And there are other choices, like FIM Ultimap, Direct Link, and Cliff's MY15M

...I'll try to provide a technical report on the TuneEdit improvements.

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I'm still a little confused about TuneBoy & TuneEdit: is 'Boy the hardware connection between your computer & the bike's ECU & 'Edit the software on the computer that allows you to change the settings stored in the ECU, or are they two separate products?

 

Very much looking forward to your report on TuneEdit next week...

[dlaing]

I'm still a little confused about TuneBoy & TuneEdit: is 'Boy the hardware connection between your computer & the bike's ECU & 'Edit the software on the computer that allows you to change the settings stored in the ECU, or are they two separate products?

69043[/snapback]

They are two seperate software products.

Both use a custom serial cable that connects to the ECU through what I call the OBD connector....It may technically not be OBD... The cable also requires that you connect a pair of alligator clips to the battery.

The Tuneboy is the diagnostic software.(currently unavailable as Wayne is busy working on it)

When it is ready it will probably give sensor readings, rpm, throttle position, error codes, active injector duration, trim adjustability, and more...or not, as I can only imagine developing this to be an incredible challenge.

The TuneEdit is the mapping software. In addition to mapping it shows Throttle Position, RPM and a couple other things. So far I have only adjusted the fuel map and the ignition map...that is more than enough for me to handle at the moment.

But I do want to overlay the PCIII map in a more accurate way than just guessing how rich the numbers may interpret to.

Other models also have a DataLogger program. I don't know if Wayne plans this for the Webber/Marelli ECU.

http://www.tuneboy.com.au/

[Skeeve]

They are two seperate software products.

Both use a custom serial cable that connects to the ECU through what I call the OBD connector....It may technically not be OBD... The cable also requires that you connect a pair of alligator clips to the battery.

 

Is this the yellow/red plug off to the side of the ecu, tied to the frame by the sidepanel? [sorry no pic; I've been meaning to ask on V11LM what this is...]

 

But I do want to overlay the PCIII map in a more accurate way than just guessing how rich the numbers may interpret to.

69053[/snapback]

 

Aren't the PCIII #s overlaid on the factory basemap? So for any given basemap cell, the corresponding cell in the PCIII map is just added to it [hence the neg #s in some PCIII cells...] Clearly, I don't have 1st hand exp. w/ any of this, but I'm just going on my understanding of how the PCIII supposedly operates...

 

Ride on,

 

[luhbo]

Maybe some pix will help

 

You start here

 

 

All trim values are zeroed.

 

Open the File menu, select the PC map and check out what the values are.

 

 

 

 

What you see here is a downloaded user provided map. In 3D it looks like that:

 

 

 

The next two pictures show the main fuel map in 3D and the corresponding values. The red curves cross at the green marked cell.

 

 

 

The next pictures show how to get the trim values in the main tables. You see, for folks like me it's available even in foreign languages!

 

 

 

 

 

Hope that helped

 

Hubert

[luhbo]

....

Some people say that having access to all the maps in the ECU is a waste of time, this seems to always come from someone selling a tool that does not.

As an example. Say the air temp trim for 100 degree days is out by 10%, but the trim for 80 degree air temp is correct.

A PC cannot fix this. If you dyno the bike on an 80 degree day it will be out by 10% on the 100 degree day.

The Webber does have problems with the standard correction factors, this can be seen if you compare the Titanium map with the standard LeMans map.

.....

68938[/snapback]

 

 

Wayne talks about this:

 

 

 

The two screen shots show in detail that you can fix a bad map only if you have access to more then the fuel map.

 

Look at the step from 77° to 89° C. The Ti looses 1.6, the standard map instead 4.6

Also the Air Temp Correction maps are rather different. Add only this and you can imagine that without fixing the root cause really correct results are impossible.

 

Hubert

[beauchemin]

Why are the Ti and LeMans temp trim maps different? Is it an error from Marelli?

[dlaing]

Why are the Ti and LeMans temp trim maps different?  Is it an error from Marelli?

69160[/snapback]

Both maps are probably full of errors.

But the reason for the difference would have more to do with legal emission compliance.

The Ti Map probably won't meet emmisions testing and it is designed for use with the titanium mufflers, which are for off road use only, like most aftermarket mufflers, and the Ti Map, Ti Muffler combo probably would not pass emission testing.

It would be interesting to compare the maps.