Car tyres????!!!!

[mike wilson]

Take it easy, Gil!  You didn't see anyone here either advocating a car tire over a motorcycle tire as their own preference or recommending such.   

 

I tend to agree with Salvadori, and I've posted a few times about the tremendous leaps forward in tire quality and value over the last 20-some years.  Strange as it may seem, the advent of steel radials for motorcycles is actually what inspired me to get back into motorcycling after a 15-year hiatus.  I posted once that I think guys would have given a kidney 20 years ago to race on "Sport" tires that anyone can pick up at the local moto-store today.  Heck, they're so good that lately I'm using Z6 "Sport Touring" tires for "Sport" and I think I've died & gone to heaven!!

 

As I suspected, a jar of worms. No doubt bike tyres have improved dramatically in the last 50 years. Anyone here ridden over wet cobbles on low-hysteresis rubber? Not an experience one would want to do twice, yet it was standard fare for UK riders up until the mid 60s.

 

Let's not forget that many of the same quantum leaps have been made in car tires over the same period.  I don't think the Valky guy's dismissing the current high quality of bike tires.  It appeared to me that he'd done valid comparisons, and that it's more of a value thing and a convenience thing with him, and I understand this.  He evidently considers the advances made in all tires to be better than a wash in the direction of a car tire for his particular use, different though it may be.  To each his own, eh?

 

That's the bit that interests me. The only tyres that are suitable for him are those available for high level sports machines, yet they are less than half the cost of bike tyres. The only one I can find that would be suitable for my bike is not properly speed rated. 8-( It's not a common tyre, yet costs a fraction of what I pay now 8-((((

 

I've always admired independent thinkers who have the ability to match a unique solution to a unique need and provide solid justification for it in the process.

As for me, I'll always do what I've always done - put the very best tires on my bikes that I can find, regardless of cost.  Myself, I'm a Metzeler guy.

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV.

67699[/snapback]

 

Define "best". 8-)

 

It would be interesting to test how the radial construction of less radical car tyres than Valkyrie guy uses allow the tread to remain on the road. Looking at the broad, flattish profile of many sport bike tyres, I can see little difference to a car tyre. But it's the little things that count........

 

mike

[Guest ratchethack]

Anyone here ridden over wet cobbles on low-hysteresis rubber?  Not an experience one would want to do twice, yet it was standard fare for UK riders up until the mid 60s. 

Isn't "low-hysteresis rubber" an English term for "Bakelite"?!

Define "best".  8-)

Hey Mike, about that jar o' worms you mentioned...

 

This is so highly subjective that it's not possible to mention what one considers "best" on an open forum even in the most general of terms without bringing on the Harpies of Hades... But I mentioned my all-time favorite mfgr. above. They've traditionally been known as the highest price and (at least in some circles) well worth it. Yeah, I know. They're Pirelli now, and they're still engineered for, developed on, and tested on Beemers. So what? The Motoren Werke has shaft drivers too, with (IMHO) similar requirements for road tires. Just my cup o' tea for the Guzzi.

 

IMHO, the good moto-tire news today goes on. It's not only that all the "big name" tire mfgr's. products are so good these days, but now, like never before, they seem to be so close in terms of performance and longevity wthin each marketing niche that it's pretty hard to make a bad choice. Seems to me The Web has made prices more competitive, which brings the range of value in closer as well.

 

This isn't a problem for me , but I've also noticed that guys who don't get enough miles on their bikes to wear 'em out within a few seasons (or in some cases just one) find that the last "latest and greatest" tire they put on has been superceded and the warehouses are fresh out. This must be sort of a "golden age" of moto tires. Ya gotta like it!

[Skeeve]

I've always admired independent thinkers who have the ability to match a unique solution to a unique need and provide solid justification for it in the process.  Did you read the guy's whole schpiel?  I think he presented a pretty strong case.  For some of the "heavy cruiser" pilots out there, It'd be pretty tough to argue with 23,000 mi. for $95!!

 

67699[/snapback]

 

So buy a Dunlop K491 EliteII and have a properly profiled motorcycle tire that's good for 18k if you watch your inflations & refrain from the smoking burnout throttle technique.

 

I've ridden a G'wing with severely squared-off rear tire, and talk about your "tip into a turn!" Granted, if I was planning on riding cross-country solely by slab, using the car tire on the rear of the G'wing would be a fine idea. But if that's the case, I'm much better off doing this by *car*, so I can be out of the weather, have a place to sack out at rest stops, have decent audio diversion while rolling up the miles, space to carry maps & CDs, blah blah blah. Travel by bike can be fun, but it isn't easy.

 

Racking up miles isn't the reason I ride. If there was a cage tire that had enough tread depth that it would be worth reprofiling to something more fitting for motorcycle use, and it was cheap & convenient enough to do such a thing, I'd be willing to give it a go. On a roadliner like a G'wing; not on a bike w/ any credible sporting aspirations.

 

'Nuff said.

 

[mike wilson]

Isn't "low-hysteresis rubber" an English term for "Bakelite"?!

 

It was the polite thing to shout as you slid along the road on your derriere, watching your brand new Thunderbird pirouetting, sparking, catching the footrest in tramlines and generally doing about 4/6d worth of damage to itself.

 

Hey Mike, about that jar o' worms you mentioned... <_>

 

This isn't a problem for me , but I've also noticed that guys who don't get enough miles on their bikes to wear 'em out within a few seasons (or in some cases just one) find that the last "latest and greatest" tire they put on has been superceded and the warehouses are fresh out.  This must be sort of a "golden age" of moto tires.  Ya gotta like it!

67763[/snapback]

 

Not sure if you are being a little facetious here. For me, developments in M/C tyres in the last decade or so seem to have been limited to making sure that cosmetics are changed so that you can give it a new name and charge a bit more. I am not a person who uses all of the handling potential of my machine on the public road. Too crowded. From what I see, most other motorcyclists are the same. The ones who are not are destined for a short life. I've seen three of those in the last four years, too.

 

I don't need a tyre that allows me to ride as if I was on a race track. I do need one that will last as long as my car tyres. For that, I would be willing to pay what others will pay for race equivalent tyres. But there is no option for me. If I could find a car tyre that fitted, I would certainly give it a try.

 

mike

[Guest ratchethack]

Not sure if you are being a little facetious here. 

OK, a little - but just.

 

For me, developments in M/C tyres in the last decade or so seem to have been limited to making sure that cosmetics are changed so that you can give it a new name and charge a bit more. 

I respsctfully beg to differ, Sir. It's not just me. Many who study these things closely have referred to far more advancements in motorcycle tire design in the last 20 years than in the previous 50. I think they're still reverse-engineering stuff they found in the cargo hold of that alien spacecraft that crashed in Roswell, NM. It would all have to be prioritized, wouldn't it? The alien motorcycle tire they recovered must've been down the list from integrated circuits, kevlar, and anti-gravity propulsion.

 

But seriously though, no facts and figures here - but looking back over 3-4 decades, my impression is that allowing for inflation, we now have access to far superior tires - by any measure - at a lower relative price point than ever.

 

I am not a person who uses all of the handling potential  of my machine on the public road.  Too crowded.  From what I see, most other motorcyclists are the same. 

 

I don't need a tyre that allows me to ride as if I was on a race track. 

I'm right with you here, Mike! Not being a racer-type (and admitting it!), this has been one of my long-term gripes. 'Course, the tire mfgr's have to produce what consumers are buying. It seems that what sells the most tires lately are the latest tire shootouts in "Superdooperbike" magazines. The "motojournalists" generally conduct their tests *where?* On a racetrack. IMHO, this practice tends to skew the available tire choices away from real-world requirements to suit a bit of a fantasy world that exists only in the mind of the average consumer. What comes to mind when you consider the "average" motorcycle tire consumer? (shudder) Thankfully, since we're all Guzzisti, we don't have any of that element here.

 

Markets being what they are, they're selling the "Boy Racer" image because it's a huge part of what the market demands. On the plus side, IMHO there are real-world "track spin-off" features and benefits that are incorporated into some decidedly *non-racing* tires that actually have real-world value in the direction of practicality on the road. The number of choices out there and the marketing hype confuses things (as designed), but generally speaking, I find the quality and value to be the best it's ever been by a long shot.

 

I do need one that will last as long as my car tyres.  For that, I would be willing to pay what others will pay for race equivalent tyres.  But there is no option for me.   If I could find a car tyre that fitted, I would certainly give it a try.

I hope you're not holding your breath on this one, Mike. IMHO this concept is the equivalent of the mythical 100 mpg carburetor, the design of which conspiracy theorist wackos have accused oil companies of purchasing and shelving... If it were possible to produce a road tire that would yield 40K miles, be completely safe, and actually deliver something like handling all at the same time - well, I reckon they'd be doing it. It seems the best we can hope for is what we've got (and that ain't bad IMHO!) - incremental leapfrogs in new technology that shuffle the inherent trade-offs in the direction of the ideal in small bite-size chunks. If that isn't far enough and fast enough, we have the Valky guy's unconventional alternative, which IMHO doesn't seem to be a bad choice - again - for HIS needs, not mine.

 

BAA TJM, & YMMV

[tikkanen]

Back in the early Eighties when I was a semi badass Harley biker(??) I couldn't get a decent tire for my bike. I had a 15 inch rear rim so the only choice was a Gislaved car tyre that I nicked from a friend of mine (He had a Volvo).

 

So how did the bike handle? Well, it didn't, not even close. When the tire manufactorers finally made a decent 15 inch motorrcycle tyre (I went for a Dunlop) it was like a brand new bike.

 

To sum it all up: Car tires are for cars and mc tires are for bikes.

 

Cheers

 

Søren

 

PS: I just caught myself writing tire/tyre. Is this another US/UK thing?

[DeBenGuzzi]

how do you think these bad boys handle?