Oil Leak After Crash!

[Dr Gil]

To bring you up to speed as quickly as possible I am new to Guzzi's (previously a Triumph kind of guy). I crashed my '02 Le Mans in August after owning it for little more than a month. It was totaled by the insurance company. The bike started easily but didn't run it long...I wanted to change the fluids first. Understanding I have limited wrenching ability and not having much of a workshop or tools I still chose to buy it back from them and make what I thought were mostly cosmetic repairs.

 

I've been waiting on parts ever since.

 

This week I've finally gotten pretty much everything and I spent the day dropping the pan, changing the oil (Valvoline 20/50 synthetic...not sure what was in it before) and filter, cleaning screens, tightening bolts and in general just getting everything ready before I started the bike in earnest. After spending MUCH longer than I thought I would replace parts and get things ready I fired it up. It started immediately and was music to my ears (love that Guzzi rumble). I let it warm up to temperature (5 minutes or so) and started checking my fittings and gaskets for any leaks. None...and then, I couldn't help but notice this HUGE leak coming out of an area I hadn't messed with. It's what I think is my timing cover (I am so new to this) gasket and flowing pretty freely out of one of the bolts holding it on.

 

 

(oh yeah, do disregard what looks like leakage where it says "disregard" it is left over cleaning solvent)

 

So someone please help me. I have no idea why the bike would suddenly have a problem in this area. It doesn't seem crash related at all. Has something gone totally wrong internally in my engine? I'm freaking. I was able to tighten the bolt a bit but it still leaks and its companion bolt above us is all but inaccessible without doing some major disassembling that I don't think I'm qualified for.

 

I am 250 miles from my "local" dealership and there is no one willing to work on Guzzi's locally...so it's either me and you guys fixing this or I'm going to have to trailer the bike down to Moto Meccanica in Santa Rosa for repairs and I'd just as soon not spend the $$$ doing that. Someone please tell me "there, there, it's no big deal."

[Guest ratchethack]

Gil, not to worry. The timing chest has occasionally been known to be prone to leakage, and it's a relatively minor thing, should be easy to take care of. If the leakage appears at the allen screw, I'd try the easiest thing first, and thoroughly degrease the screw (remove the screw of course. I use lacquer thinner as an all-purpose degreaser) and all around the area where it seats and use a gasket sealant under the head of the screw. My fav. is silicone seal, but many consider this witchcraft, so pick y'er own poison. It doesn't seem likely that the gasket could have broken as a result of the crash, but since they've been known to let go on their own, this is a possibility. Worst case, you'll need to take the timing chest cover off and install a new gasket. This is a little tricky because you have to support the engine and back out the front engine bolts, but still no big deal.

 

Far as I can tell, you're doin' great, but you gotta relax a little, Gil!

[richard100t]

The first thing you're going to need if you do a lot of work on your bike is a proper set of t handle allen wrenches. That leak doesnt look too worrisome to me, I'm looking at the photo & thinking the two leaks dont appear to be from the same source. Maybe a real Guzzi guy here can give you more advice on what the exact problem is. I'm thinking you'll just need a new gasket some proper tools & a few beers when you're done.

[DeBenGuzzi]

Is that Wrinkle paint? now THATS gonna be a prob. Oil. thats nothin.

[Dr Gil]

OK, I'm starting to feel a bit better (thanks guys). I currently have a complete set of allen wrenches and a set of the more standard sizes in a 3/8" drive but I don't seem to be able to access that bolt just above the one with anything I've got...this worries me especially if I have to remove that cover...I fear that it might be one of those "first, remove the front of you bike" things or perhaps a "first remove the engine" things...t-handles will help?

[Guest ratchethack]

Gil, standard allen wrenches fit mine just fine, can't understand why you're having an access problem... Not sure what Richard has in mind with the T-handle allens, I sure wouldn't use mine on this...nor would they even fit (?) But the beer's not a bad thought...

[Dr Gil]

Is that Wrinkle paint? now THATS gonna be a prob. Oil. thats nothin. 

68371[/snapback]

 

err, perhaps you haven't heard the latest..."wrinkle paint" is so far out that it's now in! All the cool guys have it.

[Ouiji Veck]

Triumph man/limited wrench time?

How'd you do that?

Fear ye not! Your in good hands here You'll be an old pro before you got 20K

on the LeMans (same as mine) and it will just about be broken in. It's always

easier than it looks. Wrenches won't fit? Thats why God made grinding wheels.

So far I've only sacraficed a 15mm? (acorn nut for gear selector) and a small allen.

I forgot what that was about. Gotta show those tools who's boss.

Good luck...your gonna love the Guzzi when it's all sorted out....

By the by...I have no engine paint flaking on my 02 Champagne LeMans

[Guest mtiberio]

what I'd be concerned about is a crack somewhere areound that motor mount that you can see near the leak. depending on how hard the bike was hit, the geometry of the forces, and what hit what, its possibel that that frame member could have pulled on the timing cover and cracked or distorted it. I'd pull the cover and inspect for leaks and run a flat edge around it to check the gasket surface for flatness...

[edge]

...and then, I couldn't help but notice this HUGE leak coming out of an area I hadn't messed with.  It's what I think is my timing cover (I am so new to this) gasket and flowing pretty freely out of one of the bolts holding it on. 

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Doc, Is that photo untouched?? What I mean is have you wiped it down or cleaned that area from oil? You mentioned a "HUGH" leak and I am not impressed quantity or flow of what you are pointing out

 

In aviation we would call that a seep or a weep, and not to be confused with a grounding "leak"... Anyway, as you tighten those allen heads (not too much as to strip the aluminum case), I would look very closely at the frame attaching point(s) (both sides) and make sure the engine case was not cracked in that vicinity during the drop and the resultant crack being the true source of your seep vs. the apppent case seal weep. I don't see any evidence of a cracked case based on your picture but I would take a very close look at the area between the leaking bolt you pointed out and the engine mount bolt just to be very sure.

 

To make you feel beter, I too have a couple oil wet spots on my crinkle paint in the vicinity of the case joining points. A little synthetic oil will bleed into the black paint and make it look a lot worse than it is. The advice of others to clean and seal bolts ought to fix things and then it's just a matter of "fly it and watch it"

[callison]

I forget your description of the crash but I seem to recall it went down an embankment a bit. Is that correct? If it was nose down for a while, it could be that the timing chest probably overfilled from oil draining forward. If so, it will rectify itself. It is also possible that the crankcase vent hose ripped or is loose from the impact and that you're seeing oil from that coming down upon the engine. Very misleading, but it has happened to me.

[Dr Gil]

Doc, Is that photo untouched??  What I mean is have you wiped it down or cleaned that area from oil?  You mentioned a "HUGH" leak and I am not impressed quantity or flow of what you are pointing out

 

In aviation we would call that a seep or a weep, and not to be confused with a grounding "leak"...  Anyway, as you tighten those allen heads (not too much as to strip the aluminum case), I would look very closely at the frame attaching point(s) (both sides) and make sure the engine case was not cracked in that vicinity during the drop and the resultant crack being the true source of your seep vs. the apppent case seal weep.  I don't see any evidence of a cracked case based on your picture but I would take a very close look at the area between the leaking bolt you pointed out and the engine mount bolt just to be very sure. 

 

To make you feel beter, I too have a couple oil wet spots on my crinkle paint in the vicinity of the case joining points.  A little synthetic oil will bleed into the black paint and make it look a lot worse than it is.  The advice of others to clean and seal bolts ought to fix things and then it's just a matter of "fly it and watch it" 

68378[/snapback]

 

This photo was taken less than 1 minute after I had shut off the bike an had wiped the oil from the "offending" bolt. It was flowing at a rate that in my mind made the bike unrideable. I can't see any evidence of a "crack" but will look more closely tomorrow.

 

It made me so upset to see oil "streaming" (perhaps an overstatement but that's what it was in my mind...so disappointing) out of the bike that I wiped up what I could, put some towels down and an oil pan underneath to catch whatever might seep out overnight then took some pics for you guys and put her to bed...I had had enough.

 

On the plus side the bike fired right up and ran strong...and today I got many of the "bits and pieces" of it put back together thanks to the Guzzista here and other online groups. I thought I had it made...with your help I will beat this setback also.

 

(edited to include some history)

I crashed due to my own stupidity. I neglected to put my sidestand up (PO had disconected the shut off) on a mountain road. The first sweeping left hander "pole vaulted" my bike and I about 200 feet down the roadway. We never hit anything and didn't tumble, just a slide...grinding away all the "hanging out bits" on the left side of the bike and myself (broken rib/collapsed lung, ground off fingertips).

[Mal]

Hi

 

I was going to say don't worry too much about it, I had a weep from the timing chest for ages (several thousand miles) before it was fixed under warranty (new gasket and not a drop leaked in the last 10K) however if you say you could see the oil "flowing" that sounds a bit different to a simple weep of oil.

 

Initially I'd do the bolt cleaning and gasket goo thing and tighten all the case bolts you can get at (try everything you have to to get them all including modifying/cutting down allen keys) and see if that stops it. If it ends up as just a weep of oil don't worry too much about it.

 

If its more than this I'd bite the bullet and take the cover off, check it for damage/flatness and change the gasket.

 

I've not done this myself on a spine frame but have done loads of Tonti framed Guzzis, the only awkward bit is getting the alternator off, I won't go into how to do this at the moment because I've no idea if the V11 has a different arrangement, though I doubt it knowing Guzzi but you never know. If I get the chance I'll have a look at the manual and check or I'm sure more experienced V11 tinkerers who have already done this can assist.

 

Try the easy option first and good luck.

 

Mal

[Baldini]

The timing cover does commonly leak. Tightening (not too tight to strip threads) screws can sort but some have needed new gaskets. But, given this is a problem only since the crash (yes?) a thought, tho not assumption, would be that it has been caused by the crash.

Although it's a big plus you didn't hit anything, I think you should check frame/mounts. Those front frame members bolt to the main spine under the tank. Have you had the tank off already? It may not be easy to see any distortion but, given that the leak is right next to the mount & wasn't there before the crash, it's worth a look.

If you support bike/motor & remove the front left mount bolt only it may show any distortion/stress if this causes bolt holes to be misaligned. Check upper bolts too.

I would remove the screw where leak is & have a good look around that whole area for any cracks. Another thing that can bend is forks/triple clamps. I would look over these best you can to check for straightness. May be worth loosening off clamps & re-aligning.

Are wheels aligned front/back?

If you suspect frame is bent you can remove forks & stick a broom handle or suchlike thru steering head as easy check for alignment.

 

KB

[Paul Minnaert]

I've seen a lot of v11 accident bikes where the front enginecover had problems just where you have them, a crack in the casting does it. So maybe it's bolts omly, otherwise you have to replace the cover. You don't need long waiting for that, a stock of leftover parts is in germany, www.hmb-guzzi.de goto teile,

http://www.hmb-guzzi.de/html/teileangebot.htm

stirndeckel v11 sport 39 euro