removing fork springs 2004 V11

[Guest trispeed]

Hi all, I can't decipher from the manual if I must remove the screws at the bottom of the fork legs (accessed by removing the axle ) before removing the top fork caps, or what? I tried removing the caps but they won't come out.

Thanks!

[richard100t]

Hi all, I can't decipher from the manual if I must remove the screws at the bottom of the fork legs (accessed by removing the axle ) before removing the top fork caps, or what? I tried removing the caps but they won't come out.

Thanks!

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I believe you should work from the bottom to the top. First remove the wheel & fender. I think the newer forks are slightly different than my 01's forks, so I'll defer to the others here on that part.

[Guest trispeed]

wheel's off but the fork caps won't come off; fork caps feel like there is spring tension keeping them from coming out?? Anybody with experience with the late model forks? Thanks!

[richard100t]

The way I remember it the fender has to come off right away with the wheel. Then you have to loosen the pinch bolts further up. Theres nothing in the forks themselves that hold them to the bike that I can remember. The only reason to loosen the top caps of the forks while they're still on the bike is because the clamps hold the fork tube for you. On the 01' model I have I only loosened the top caps & drained the fluid, I didnt disassemble the fork itself in any way. There are many threads on this procedure here & if you google v11 fork oil change.

[Guest trispeed]

Hi Richard,

I have read all the threads, consulted the service manual, etc. The shops are closed today or I would have called them for advice. I'm trying to get the fork caps off to change the springs, change the fluid. They will not come off; they unscrew then are seemingly held fast by spring tension. I was curious if anyone with the late model forks, (which apparently are very different ) has changed the springs/ fluid.

Thanks!

[Guest ratchethack]

Trispeed, I believe you have the Marz 43 mm forks? If so, I'm pretty sure they're set up nearly identical to my Marz 40 mm. If you're just changing out springs there's no need to remove anything from the bike other than the fork caps, spring retainer nuts, spring retainer collets, and the spacers above the springs.

 

DO NOT attempt to remove the bottom fork bolts that secure the cartridge assemblies. This is done only when separating the fork uppers from the lowers, and there's no need whatsoever to do this to change out springs.

 

Sounds to me like you've unscrewed the fork caps to the full extent of the threads, and that you have the front wheel suspended off the floor. This is as it should be, but you need to understand that the caps are still threaded and jam-nutted to the cartridge assembly rods. At this point the caps are resting on the tops of the fork tubes with the weight of the front wheel, fork lowers, and cartridge assemblies pulling them down.

 

You need to block up the wheel to raise the fork lowers along with the cartridge assemblies, which will then raise up over the fork tubes for access to the jam-nuts, which can be broken loose, and the caps can then be removed.

[Guest trispeed]

Hi Ratchethack, thanks a bunch, I will try that tomorrow. BTW, will I be able to check the oil level without further dis-assembly? I'm trying the Wilbers springs, the damping is great as is.

I have lots of experience with standard, non- cartridge forks; they sure are simple to work on. I could have changed springs and fluid in the time it's taken me to write these posts!! :!:

[Guest ratchethack]

BTW, will I be able to check the oil level without further dis-assembly?

Yep. Wilbers recommends 100 mm air space (Luftkammer). I've experimented a bit and found this ideal for my purposes. Measure from the top of the fork tubes with the forks fully compressed (wheel blocked up) as described in my last post. I found that this can be most easily done with the springs in place, before you put the spacers in. I'd try the spacers at stock length first, and change 'em as needed to suit your sag setting objectives.

 

I have lots of experience with standard, non- cartridge forks

Moi aussi. It's a brand new world, innit?

 

I hope you like your Wilbers springs as much as I do. I did my first really strenuous mountain ride with 'em last weekend, and it's like a brand new bike. Now I can't wait to get back into the the rest of the old familiar roads with 'em!

[Guest trispeed]

excellent! I am optimistic and your testimony was instrumental in my decision to go w/ Wilbers. I have had lots of luck w/ progressive aftermarket replacements with at least 20 of my previous machines.

[Guest ratchethack]

I have had lots of luck w/ progressive aftermarket replacements with at least 20 of my previous machines.

Now THAT'S a testimonial, Trispeed! You've got me beat by 18 prior progressively-resprung bikes, and by 8 in total...

 

I guess you know then that many (including a bunch here on this forum ) consider progressively wound springs the work of Beelzebub, The Great Deceiver...

 

I'm starting to think next about a progressive spring for the Sachs-Boge shock to get the chassis better matched up WRT sag settings. Have you given any thoughts to this?

[Guest trispeed]

sad to report that it isn't simple to replace the springs with the 43mm marz forks. Todd @ Guzzi tech says , the bottom bolts must come out and take everything apart. I tried what you recommended but there's no 'jam nut' at the top to work with. There is a preload adjuster that takes up the space there. The springs are also on top of the spacers and it appears that they are progressive. (Small windings at the top) To be frank, the bike handles great as is; it proved itself at the track a couple weeks ago. Maybe the new fork addressed the shortcomings/ complaints re: the old one?

[Guest trispeed]

I would love to have a progressive spring on the shock, as there's no linkage. This would be a big help with compliance. As for the 'progressive haters'; you can always find contrary opinions, often from people with little or no practical experience. The fork spring experiments I have conducted also included dual rate springs from Works Performance. They're right in my neighborhood but hard to get otherwise. The other 60- some bikes I have owned ( past tense, unfortunately, not enough $$ or room to keep 'em!) were either fine as is or beyond help! I've had all kinds from race replica to Gold Wings. I even have an Aprilia 500 Atlantic scooter! It's a great commuter.

[Guest ratchethack]

sad to report that it isn't simple to replace the springs with the 43mm marz forks. Todd @ Guzzi tech says , the bottom bolts must come out and take everything apart.

Arrrrgh - didn't know there had been a major design change between the 40 mm and the 43 mm. Sorry for any misunderstanding out there!!

I would love to have a progressive spring on the shock, as there's no linkage. This would be a big help with compliance. As for the 'progressive haters'; you can always find contrary opinions, often from people with little or no practical experience.

Roger that. It seems that the only essential element for many detractors of competitive products is that the solution in question actually work very effectively and be successful in the application for which it's designed.

 

CONTROVERSY? - What controversy?!

 

Though I don't think they're necessarily always the right solution, I've been convinced of the advantages of progressive springs for my own purposes for many years. As you pointed out, for many years now, OEMs have evidently been following similar logic, both with the trend toward rising-rate linkages and with the trend toward progressive springs. Didn't know Marz ever offered a progressive spring in their forks, but I'm not surprised.

 

The previous discussion on progressive vs. straight-rate springs on this forum illustrated a few popular misconceptions, IMHO - which evidently came from practical experiences that may have lacked an adequate understanding of the principles involved.

 

IMHO, many riders evidently continue to fail to grasp the fundamental importance of matching rate to load. This is impossible to achieve unless both static and free sag can be set in the proper ranges at the same time-- regardless of whether the springs are straight-rate or progressive. The only "success" that such a lack of understanding permits is thereby virtually guaranteed IMHO - unless random chance intercedes, a successful and complete sabotage of any re-spring attempt is more'n likely.

 

For anyone interested, Pete Verdone has done a fairly comprehensive study on spring rates on his site:

 

http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/springs.htm

 

Verdone says some interesting things on this link about progressive springs, including slamming them as a "one size fits all" solution, "extremely foolish" and "for the novice", yet to my way of thinking, seemingly contradicts himself by then saying that OEM progressive springs are for the purpose of making the bike perform reasonably well for almost all riders, and at the same time saying that they're extremely difficult for even professional tuners to get right, and that Miguel Duhamel's HRC WSB superbikes are "rumored" to use 'em. I forgive what sounds to me like contradictions, since he's looking at suspension from the perspective of racing...and I'm not racing...

 

Ah, but as I've just proven myself in this thread , in the often hard-scrabble, gritty world of motorcycle knowledge, what passes for credibility in the current "lore" available at any given time and place (particularly when it comes to suspension) is a rare and often fleeting commodity.... Then you pile on emotional justifications for commitments made, - well, seems to me that it's a recipe for exactly the kind of mistakes that seem to abound... So I'm not surprised that there've been many false conclusions made WRT progressive and straight-rate springs alike.

 

Me, I don't have any axe to grind or pre-conceived agenda. I just tend to go with what makes sense to me and what I've proven to myself works.

 

The other 60- some bikes I have owned ( past tense, unfortunately, not enough $$ or room to keep 'em!) were either fine as is or beyond help! I've had all kinds from race replica to Gold Wings. I even have an Aprilia 500 Atlantic scooter! It's a great commuter.

So the "other 60" are on top of the 20 you put progressive springs on? And here I've been accused of obsession with having had just 12 in total, and 2 currently!!

[Guest trispeed]

well, actually 89 total but who's counting?

I really want to get to 100 while we can still get gasoline!

[Martin Barrett]

well, actually 89 total but who's counting?

I really want to get to 100 while we can still get gasoline!

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Go on put a list up some where with synopsis, an introduction thread would be good place, I'm only on to my 5th. With me motorcycles are rather like women I'm in for the long term.