Extremely Graphic (est. 174mph off)

[Frenchbob]

Thanks, Orangeoakie.

 

We need this from time to time. We all know why we ride, and we all should know the risks, and accept them. You have to be able to look at this and say, "I do the best I can to avoid this happening to me and other people" and then go out and ride in the knowledge that this can happen to the best, as well as the least careful. Anyone want motorcycling with speed limiters and outrigger wheels? No, I don't either.

[slug]

First, don't get me wrong, I have nothing but sympathy for the rider and his family. No matter what poor choices this person has made, its still a terrible shame for anyone to go out like that. Do I think he was dumb to be riding there at that speed? Hell yes. This is a good example of what track days are for. I have a feeling that a contributing factor to many of these fatalities is the rider not knowing or simply forgetting that their Moto GP heroes can survive their 150+ mph crashes because they're in a controlled environment with far fewer hazards than we face every day. I've heard many racers wouldn't even think of riding on a public road, period.

 

With that said, time for a little fun:

 

How would you suggest we do this "sad colleague" and other people "justice", if not to use his experience as an example to others of how not to behave, in a way that could potentially prevent more people from inflicting the same kind of entirely senseless and pointless damage to themselves and others?

 

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Perhaps we could have this etched on his headstone:

 

 

Back to serious mode: I am all for requiring all riders (especially 16 - 30 year olds) to sit through a modern-day (and motorcycle oriented) version of the ultra-gory traffic safety films of the 1950s - 1960s (Feeling nostalgic or want to see what you missed out on? Hell's Highway I highly reccommend it. ) Its probably wishful thinking, but maybe it would make the Squids and Stuntaz think twice about what they're doing once they see what REALLY happens when they choose to put their lives and our lives at risk...

[Guest Britcheflee]

I wonder if any alcohol or drugs were involved? As to a previous question if you look at the road it appears that they dragged all the bits to the other side of the road - then covered him up with the jacket - whoever took the pics took the jacket off.

I worked in a funeral home for nearly two years so have seen a lot of pretty strange stuff - actually never had a motorcycle victim - a number of people not wearing seat belts coming out of the truck/jeep/etc and having the vehicle roll on them and crush them, then all kinds of other ways to go - including stupid stuff like an old guy who put some trash into a large barrel to burn but put in too much gas or whatever and it exploded all over him and burnt him so bad he died..... quite a few suicides, not many murders, but on the whole most people make it to a good age and live their lives out as normal - I spent most of my time going to homes or the hospital or care homes to pick up people. But this was up here in the country - its a whole different deal in the city - might have continued on as a career but the owner and the wife of the funeral home were so horrible I left and went into cooking!!!!!!!!

 

 

Lee

 

 

Lee

[slug]

I wonder if any alcohol or drugs were involved? 

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I'd call this a fatal overdose of testosterone.

[luhbo]

I'd call this a fatal overdose of testosterone.

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I'm not really sure about this. Everything faster but running is already to fast to be controlled by the cerebrum. Things like driving, using a hammer, shooting on moving aims and such normally is controlled by other parts of our brain, called cerebellum. The cerebrum then leans back and makes plans, tries to foresee what could probably happen behind the next curve or so. The actual steering, the 'fine tuning' then is done only by trained reflexes.

 

Knowing that you could say as well that this guy probably was a more experienced one, with lots of miles and near misses under his belt. Under such circumstances the cerebrum saw no extraordinary risks and fell asleep, unfortunately at the wrong moment.

 

This can and does happen to everyone, regardless whether he has seen such things or not.

 

So such pix and stories have no other effect but damage our image even more. They only help to establish more restrictions than we already have.

 

 

Hubert

[mike wilson]

Weird.  Not a sign, in any of the posts.  Can't see the picture in your sig line, either.  Maybe I've got a version of avatar flat line disease?  Will check on Monday, when I'm back at work, although I use the same software there.

 

m

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I had the browser set to not show pics that didn't derive from the viewed site. Operator error....

 

m

[Guest ratchethack]

I'm not really sure about this. Everything faster but running is already to fast to be controlled by the cerebrum. Things like driving, using a hammer, shooting on moving aims and such normally is controlled by other parts of our brain, called cerebellum. The cerebrum then leans back and makes plans, tries to foresee what could probably happen behind the next curve or so. The actual steering, the 'fine tuning' then is done only by trained reflexes.

 

Knowing that you could say as well that this guy probably was a more experienced one, with lots of miles and near misses under his belt. Under such circumstances the cerebrum saw no extraordinary risks and fell asleep, unfortunately at the wrong moment.

 

This can and does happen to everyone, regardless whether he has seen such things or not.

 

So such pix and stories have no other effect but damage our image even more. They only help to establish more restrictions than we already have.

Hubert

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Hubert, I'm sincerely interested in your take on this. I'll attempt to clarify my interest below.

 

I don't fully comprehend a mindset that allows for the kind of grossly irresponsible behavior that obviously caused this crash. Perhaps you can enlighten me a little more. For someone who states that you're "not really sure about this", you seem to have arrived at some conclusions that are quite astonishing, at least to me:

 

1. The operation of the cerebrum is capable of "leaning back and making plans", even "falling asleep" on it's own, evidently at the most critical and inopportune times.

 

FALSE

 

This statement would seem to put control of one's cerebrum beyond that of it's operator. I'm no neurosurgeon, but let's look at this from a practical point of view. Many kinds of accidents on motorcycles in general can indeed happen to anyone. But I think it's important to recognize a critical difference here. No one pulled out in front of this guy, and no one changed lanes into him their "blind spot". This particular single-vehicle, 174 mph "accident" simply ain't in the same ballpark with those that can happen to "anyone". It would have been 100% avoidable (not maybe, but most certainly) with the application of such common attributes of most people as common sense, basic logic, and wisdom. At anything near safe speeds, for example - regardless of cause - what are the probabilities that his body would have been ripped apart? Do you think there would have been any accident at all, at safe - let alone legal - speeds?

 

Generally, if an individual can fog a mirror, he can be assumed to possess enough continual cerebral electrical activity to keep himself alive for a normal lifespan under most circumstances, even in the face of all of life's most seductive and dangerous temptations. Experience would of course have been welcome here as well, but experience wouldn't even have been necessary to save this guy's life with the common sense posessed by most well-raised 10 year-olds.

 

I can only speak from my own experience, but every one of my riding Pals, and every rider I've ever known, for that matter, has had full possession of all four of the above attributes in ample supply, and so's not to sell my Pals short, let's throw in a modicum of self discipline and self-control, qualities also possessed (to varying degrees) by most of the riders I know. In the case of our hapless "victim", it might be as self-evident to many as it is to me that he was lacking in the application of most of the above at the time of his unfortunate dismount and launch - unless of course we consider that suicide may have been his objective.

 

2. "this guy probably was a more experienced one, with lots of miles and near misses under his belt"

 

INVALID

 

This is speculation without basis, unless you have additional knowledge of the rider beyond what was posted. On the contrary, as has been stated in this thread, Pro Racers wouldn't dream of these kinds of speeds on any public road. Non-Pro experienced riders might also be expected to follow suit, depending on the quality and depth of their experience. It would also seem to me that you don't get to be either a Pro or an experienced rider without significant development in the areas of of common sense, basic logic, wisdom, and especially in the case of the Pro, extremely well-developed focus in the areas of personal responsibility, discipline and self-control - all of which would no doubt have clearly served to prevent the circumstances that gave rise to our rider's high-speed demise. I think we can for the most part safely eliminate the idea that he was "more experienced" from further speculation here.

 

3. "This can and does happen to everyone, regardless whether he has seen such things or not."

 

FALSE

 

174 mph single-vehicle crashes clearly don't happen to everyone. Speaking for myself and if I may be so bold, every rider I know, this will in fact NEVER happen to any of us. For starters, I don't have any riding Pals with machines capable of these speeds. I do know of some, but just statistically speaking, it would be reasonable enough for me to assume that most of these are responsible enough to resist the highest speeds their machines are capable of where there is high probability of danger and high risk involved, as were clearly the circumstances that resulted in the instant death and dismemberement of the rider in question.

 

4. Such photos serve only to damage our image.

 

FALSE

 

Do photos of high-speed auto wrecks serve only to damage the image of car drivers? I believe they also serve a very important role. That is, to get people to pay closer attention to the requirements for and importance of THEIR OWN RESPONSIBILITIES in driving, but that's just me. Now of course, there are those who either can't or don't read, and some who only look at pictures. Continuing along the same line, there are also those who will fall into open sewers. Our most effective care and concern for the welfare of others is best tailored for those we're capable of effectively reaching, don't you think?

 

Now the reason I'm interested in your thinking, Hubert, is that for many decades now, dozens of driver training films in this country and others have used the technique of showing the graphic and shocking results of irresponsible driving behavior to novice drivers. To the best of my understanding, there is a well-proven purpose in doing this. It has a valid deterrent effect on irresponsible behavior and helps novices to safely advance through the learning stages so they can become experienced drivers without falling prey to the temptations of irresponsible and illegal behavior along the way.

 

There will of course always be those who are incapable of or unwilling to think about the nature of graphic images beyond an emotional level. There is, after all, a politically well-fed and seemingly growing mentality among the Great Unwashed that denies the concept of self control and for that matter, the idea that virtually any aspect of one's own behavior is one's own responsibility. Perpetually expanding governments depend on catering to these kinds of people, even to the point of actively creating more of them in the voting public. But given the power of self-preservation that's hard-wired into most of us, don't you think that most people tend to logically analyse things just a little bit beyond an emotional first blink, particularly if the vast majority are driving/riding on even remotely similar machines on even remotely similar roads to those that appear in the most graphic shock-photo's?

 

My sincerety in asking you for further clarity, Hubert, is admittedly partly selfish. My sense of self-preservation is as well-developed as the next guy's, maybe moreso. To this end, I've always striven to comprehend the minds of those whose behavior on the road is a danger to themselves as well as to me, and I have always assumed that this threat is out there on the road. Such behavior has put many individuals in a category with whom I refuse to ride. I figure if I can understand how they think and function, I can better avoid them.

 

Despite having made a little fun of this in previous posts with the reference to natural selection (which I think has it's own value in getting a warning awareness out there) I believe such understanding is deadly serious. I hope this makes sense?

 

But I'm also calling your 4 points above false and invalid for another purpose - that of potentially helping others on this Forum to hopefully better understand how to keep themselves from becoming statistics - even if it's at the hands of others.

 

Safety first, and thanks in advance.

[Martin Barrett]

On the contrary, as has been stated in this thread, Pro Racers wouldn't dream of these kinds of speeds on any public road. 

 

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What about closed circuit road races: TT; Manx GP; NW200 etc . Whilst they aren't public roads for the duration of the event. Unfortunately they don't have the wide run offs etc of circuits. and despite some safety measures still have trees and walls etc. The traffic is controlled (one hopes) you shouldn't come across any oncoming traffic , but there could be a machine in front having broken down or for whatever reason be on the race track doing something unexpected. There may not always be a marshall to hand.

 

 

 

On some public roads you can get a good view that will eliminate the possibility of the JCB over the brow of the ridge scenario and allow some indecent speeds

 

 

Whilst I wouldn't advocate 174 or even achieve it. I think I've maxed out at 144 on a driving course. I've also had the FJ flat out once also (not on a dual carriageway). I like to think I'm fairly cautious.

 

In this accident we don't know the cause. With road side furniture at 174 it's pretty academic.

[Guest ratchethack]

As you pointed out, Martin, and as Slug pointed out previously, under race conditions on public roads, the worst of the risk and probability of danger has been either eliminated or reduced far beyond that possible on non-controlled public roads. Consider running the IOM at race speeds under non-race (public use) conditions!!

 

One of the points at the core of my post was that the cause of the crash might properly have been considered the irresponsible and unsafe behavior of the rider himself, rather than something that "just happened" to him. If he had been observing responsible behavior - let alone legal behavior - he might well be alive and riding today.

 

Unless we take responsibility for our own behavior on the road (as elsewhere), we open ourselves up to the consequences, which can easily be ignored or forgotten.

 

I'm just saying that reminders can be of benefit from time to time - for all of us, possibly for some more than others.

[luhbo]

Hi Ratchet,

 

it's just science. Medicine, Psychology, Behavioral Research, such things. You can read about all this in "Bernd Spiegel: Die obere Hälfte des Motorrads; Motorbuch Verlag". I can really recommend it. As the diphtongs imply, it's german, and available also only in german, sorry.

 

To make a long book short: How often have you been riding for miles and can afterwards not remember what you have seen and done? I mean really remember, make a list and swear on this list.

Or do you push your bike around corners where you can not see how the street goes on? No, you do not, you think you reduce the speed enough and then go on. What will happen if there's a dead cat laying in the middle of your way? Shit will happen.

 

So you're not driving really safe, you just do something what you think is safe! Others think different. You'r human, others as well. Who acts silly, the one braking his neck on a bloody dead and stinky corps of a lousy cat behind a hidden corner or the one blown off the street at 178 plus? I'm not sure and so I should be better careful with judging (now and here I am, in real life not always )

 

This is the mechanism I was talking about in the previous posting.

 

There is one very good example for what the cerebrum/cerebellum do in the mentioned book: next time if you suffer from a bad hickups, just watch what your body exactly does and then try to provoke the next hickup. Most people (one should be carefull with 'you' ) will find, that exactly in this moment the hickups has gone. It seems strange, but that's what science is sometimes.

 

Hubert

 

Safety First! Do not forget this...

[luhbo]

Martin, what was the name of this driver?

 

Hubert

[badmotogoozer]

Safety First! Do not forget this...

 

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I always thought it was "safety third"...

 

Rj

[Guest ratchethack]

Others think different. You'r human, others as well. Who acts silly, the one braking his neck on a bloody dead and stinky corps of a lousy cat behind a hidden corner or the one blown off the street at 178 plus? I'm not sure...

Thanks for the clarification, Hubert. I believe I understand fully now.

 

Be careful out there, my friend.

[luhbo]

Thanks for the clarification, Hubert.  I believe I understand fully now. <_>

 

Be careful out there, my friend.

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Oh, that's not the problem. I'm always careful, at least I try to do my best. But we're not perfect, not at all! We're made some ten thousand years ago or even more. We're still those troglodytes, not capable to operate properly the machines we're able to create if we take our time.

This is fact. It gives me no safety if I look at horrible pix. Next time when I should remember a bit of the fear they make me now I will eventually look at the legs of the girls standing there and remember other things.

 

But I'm happy that you understand fully now. It really began coming at me. Thanks for the good wishes, same to you

[Martin Barrett]

Martin, what was the name of this driver?

 

Hubert

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That is/was Richard Britton. I had the picture already from an earlier thread following his death in September. Following engine seizure?

 

could have easily put up Dave Jeffries or countless road racers