Help! Bike not balanced correctly!

[Guest jmnvhc]

Hello all,

 

I'm a new Guzzi owner, I recently purchased a 2004 Ballabio at a steal from MotoInternational in Seattle.

 

I love the bike but there's something amiss with it... it's not balanced from left to right.

 

Some history:

 

I first noticed the issue on the way back from Seattle... it felt like the handlebars weren't on straight. When I got it home I noticed that they were a little bit tweaked to the right, so I loosened all the brackets, tweaked it to the left just a smidge, and it seemed to fix the issue.

 

Now just this morning I checked the tire pressures for the first time since I got the bike a week ago.

 

It turned out the front tire was inflated (from the shop) to 47 psi, and the rear was at 25psi, which was really strange.

 

I filled the tires to the manual recommended pressures (32 front/35 rear), and went on my way, and after I adjusted the tire pressures, I noticed that the bike felt like it was always leaning to the left when I was going straight down the road.

 

I noticed it through the small trip on several different roads (both back roads and highway), so I ruled out the possibility that it was a slanted road (for drainage).

 

When I got back home I got a level, set it on the gas tank, and sat on the bike until it felt balanced (with the engine off of course).

 

Lo and behold, the bubble in the level was nowhere near center, but all the way to the right (so bike is leaning left), re-enforcing the perception that the bike is imbalanced.

 

I guess that the tank could be installed incorrectly, but I doubt it.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions? Has anyone else had this issue? I really hope the frame isn't bent, but I just can't see how... it's brand new out of the crate!

 

It's under warranty, but I thought I'd bounce it off the group before I took it into the dealer.

 

Thanks for any advice, I really appreciate it.

[Guest ratchethack]

First off, congrat's on your superb purchase! I'll bet the MI boys treated you well. Dave, Greg, and Jason have always done right by me, and I'm not exactly a local... You're fortunate to have them as your dealer and to have such a World Class resource within riding distance. May I highly recommend a copy of Dave's book, Guzziology.

 

I'm surprised that they'd have let your bike out of the shop with tire pressures that far out o' whack , but I wouldn't let this detract from their reputation.

 

The reading of the level as you've described it means nothing at all. The tank on my bike probably isn't level either, the way you measured it, but it wouldn't surprise me to know it was.

 

Most every road you'll ride on has a crown on it. This may account for part or all of your concerns.

 

Get the MI boys on the horn and see what they say, but I wouldn't lose a wink o' sleep. Welcome to the fold!!

[edge]

When I got back home I got a level, set it on the gas tank, and sat on the bike until it felt balanced (with the engine off of course).

 

Lo and behold, the bubble in the level was nowhere near center, but all the way to the right (so bike is leaning left), re-enforcing the perception that the bike is imbalanced.

70317[/snapback]

 

I am not sure the straddled bike with a level on the tank is a method the the will tell you much

 

I think you are an the right track by eliminatin gthe gross and obvious with tire pressure and handle bar allignment. I think I would stay focused on the front end to make sure that it is truly "alined" (i.e. fork set in tripple trees, etc.) Make sure the bars are not bent from shipping or retention straps. Other than that there are not many adjustments. There is an extensive thread here for rear alignment measurements and procedures. I also think your MI needs to get you satisfied too being new (assumption) and under warranty. Good luck and welcme

[Ouiji Veck]

There's nothing to be out of balance.

Tires was a good place to look...

the Level thing is just not applicable.

Steering dampner malfunction? Not Likely.

Tire defect? Doubt it.

Rear wheel alignment?.... I defer to ratchethack

My guess is it's just the combination of the new.. torque/shaft/camber/

A Guzzi feels real different. What are you getting off of?

MI is great have them check it out.

Get 1000mi on it then see how it feels.

Good luck...your gonna love it.

[Guest jmnvhc]

First off, congrat's on your superb purchase!  I'll bet the MI boys treated you well.  Dave, Greg, and Jason have always done right by me, and I'm not exactly a local... You're fortunate to have them as your dealer and to have such a World Class resource within riding distance.  May I highly recommend a copy of Dave's book, Guzziology.

 

I'm surprised that they'd have let your bike out of the shop with tire pressures that far out o' whack , but I wouldn't let this detract from their reputation.

 

The reading of the level as you've described it means nothing at all.  The tank on my bike probably isn't level either, the way you measured it, but it wouldn't surprise me to know it was. 

 

Most every road you'll ride on has a crown on it.  This may account for part or all of your concerns. 

 

Get the MI boys on the horn and see what they say, but I wouldn't lose a wink o' sleep.  Welcome to the fold!!

70319[/snapback]

 

 

Thanks for the responses.

 

Yeah, the tank does have some freeplay to it. It's really hard to tell when the bikes sitting still... It's probably more likely due to my obsessive compulsiveness.

 

No doubt MI has treated me well so far. It's really nice to ride a motorcycle where the dealership (both in Seattle and in my hometown in Beaverton OR) is owned and run by pure enthusiasts of the bikes they sell.

 

The bike it's replacing is a Honda Superhawk, which is a great bike, but I'm starting to move away from the sportbikes.

 

The Guzzi just has such a relaxed, easy ride, and it's fun in the corners. It probably weighs a good 30-40 lbs more than my Honda, but handles so much better... really neutral steering, no effort at all.

 

It's just too quiet stock, but all things in good time

 

Thanks again. And great forum...

[dlaing]

Not that it would prove the bike is abnormal or dangerous, but try putting the level on the forks and or the vertical side of the tires.

My bike pulls to the right, not the left as yours does, and I am thinking it is the steering damper gently counter steering.

A couple possibilities for your scenario are that the person who put the air in the tires, also mounted the wheels

It is possible that the wheels are, or a wheel is, or the swing arm is adjusted or shimmed to far to the right.

If the tires were heavily worn on one side, I guess you would have noticed....

It is a Guzzi, and because of the engine layout, it does things differently.

You will find that if you are falling over to the left at a stoplight, a quick jap of the throttle will right you.

This force is also happening when you are riding, so the bike never feels quite as centered like most chain and belt driven bikes.

 

But don't second guess safety. Let Moto International inspect it.

[Guest jedione68]

Hello all,

 

I'm a new Guzzi owner, I recently purchased a 2004 Ballabio at a steal from MotoInternational in Seattle.

 

I love the bike but there's something amiss with it... it's not balanced from left to right.

 

Some history:

 

I first noticed the issue on the way back from Seattle... it felt like the handlebars weren't on straight.  When I got it home I noticed that they were a little bit tweaked to the right, so I loosened all the brackets, tweaked it to the left just a smidge, and it seemed to fix the issue.

 

Now just this morning I checked the tire pressures for the first time since I got the bike a week ago.

 

It turned out the front tire was inflated (from the shop) to 47 psi, and the rear was at 25psi, which was really strange.

 

I filled the tires to the manual recommended pressures (32 front/35 rear), and went on my way, and after I adjusted the tire pressures, I noticed that the bike felt like it was always leaning to the left when I was going straight down the road.

 

I noticed it through the small trip on several different roads (both back roads and highway), so I ruled out the possibility that it was a slanted road (for drainage).

 

When I got back home I got a level, set it on the gas tank, and sat on the bike until it felt balanced (with the engine off of course).

 

Lo and behold, the bubble in the level was nowhere near center, but all the way to the right (so bike is leaning left), re-enforcing the perception that the bike is imbalanced.

 

I guess that the tank could be installed incorrectly, but I doubt it.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions?    Has anyone else had this issue?  I really hope the frame isn't bent, but I just can't see how... it's brand new out of the crate!

 

It's under warranty, but I thought I'd bounce it off the group before I took it into the dealer.

 

Thanks for any advice, I really appreciate it.

70317[/snapback]

Welcome a board our newest brother!

I'm with every one on its pretty much nothing to worry about, and its

a matter of getting use to. But then again it seems like you've stepped off

a rather nice, big, fast bike so there is a little concern on my part.

 

I'd just swing by the shop and give them a heads up or even see if you could let ya ride another Guzzi just to see if its you or the bike. Also, have them check

all the alignment, fork yokes for levelness, tires not on backwards (god forbid)

and worst case that the Fork tub's aren't bent.

 

Guzzi do pull to the side (engine wise), but I've been riding them so long I wouldn't know anymore. And we can all ride around all day on them with no hands

so it's not like its that bad of an engine pull. Also, something to think about.

It might just be your personel ridding style due to other bikes and ect.

 

With the Guzzi's, I found, its best to really let your knee's get friendly with those

big beautiful valve covers. And to hung and steer the bike with your upper

legs against the tank and most of all, where do you want to go foot pressure on the pegs.

 

Again, welcome aboard, and enjoy. Keep me posted what ya find out.

Rubber Side Down,

Jedione

[docc]

Backing the steering dmper all the way off is probably good medicine.

 

Compared toyour Hawk the Guzzi will take some time to tweak, adjust tune and otherwise meld with.

 

Enjoy and welcome!

[Guest jmnvhc]

And we can all ride around all day on them with no hands

so it's not like its that bad of an engine pull. 

70338[/snapback]

 

Alright, so I change my mind again... I took the bike out today briefly, and was going down the road and let go of the handle bars, and it veered right, so I can't ride without hands.

 

It makes sense too... if the bike is slightly weight biased to the right, it will pull right.

 

Also, torque reaction is not a factor, since I'm not on the throttle. It should only happen when accelerating.

 

Someone else mentioned that their bike pulled to the right too. Is this common for Guzzis?

[Bbennett]

My V11 tracks fine with no hands. Is there another ruder you know and trust (pref. a Guzzi owner) who could take your bike out and see if it pulls for him/her?

It is staring to sound to me like you do have a problem. The brake pads are not bound up on the right front are they....?

[Guest jmnvhc]

My V11 tracks fine with no hands.  Is there another ruder you know and trust (pref. a Guzzi owner) who could take your bike out and see if it pulls for him/her?

It is staring to sound to me like you do have a problem.  The brake pads are not bound up on the right front are they....?

70530[/snapback]

 

 

That's a good question. I'm not sure if they are?

 

I called my local shop (Cascade Moto Classics) and they said to bring it in and they'd ride it and see if they notice it pulling to the right. They also said there isn't much to adjust as far as alignment goes, and that it is pretty much shipped in the crate with the forks and wheels on.

 

So I guess we'll have to wait and see. I'm going to take it in tomorrow around noon (after the roads thaw out).

 

BTW, another user on this thread (dlaing) also said their's pulls to the right as well, so I'm kind of curious how common this issue is?

 

Thanks,

 

Jose

[Murray]

Could be steering head bearings adjustment and or a duff wheel bearings. If the bike has been sitting for a long time, in the warehouse/on the boat the lube in the afore metioned bearings might be past it.

[BrianG]

My V11 tracks fine with no hands.  Is there another ruder you know and trust (pref. a Guzzi owner) who could take your bike out and see if it pulls for him/her?

It is staring to sound to me like you do have a problem.  The brake pads are not bound up on the right front are they....?

70530[/snapback]

 

It is not a unilateral brake pad issue. Single front-disc motorcycles do not veer when the brake is applied.

 

It is not a steering damper issue. The damper only slows the normal fork responses to chassis forces, it does not actually change them.

 

There are only 2 possibilities for this issue:

 

1) uneven weight distribution.......... unlikely unless your butt is asymetrical

 

2) wheel alignment:

The front wheel primarily tracks according to chassis input or control input, rather than controlling the track..... set yourself up on a straight line on a "normal" bike and let go of the handle bars... the bike tracks straight. Then shift your weight sideways on the seat or lean sideways.... watch the handle bars as the front wheel changes track. Because of the rake and trail of the fork geometry a twist in the fork will aim the center line of the rake/trail plane away from parallel with the plane of travel of the wheel, imparting some lateral tracking. To check fork alignment, use horzontal beams across the triple clamps and a T-bar across the front wheel. Obviously, the 3 axes have to be parallel.

 

The rear wheel is the most common cause of alignment imbalance on motorcycles with chain drives, since it is quite easy to set the rear axle askew when adjusting the drive chain tightness. Being new to the Guzzi world, I am not sure how easy it would be to set the rear axle off line. Obviously this would be a less likely issue on the Guzzi since owners are not frequently messing with the rear axle, but I wonder if it's an assembly possibility. Aligning the rear axle requires a length of string or cord. These days of different front/rear tire width requires some fiddling that wasn't necessary back in the day. The idea is to use the string to carry a straight line longitudinally across two (well separated) points on each tire. The front tire determines the trajectory of the line projected rearward. If the rear wheel is cocked from the straight forward position, there will be a gap between the tire and the string at one of the 2 expected contact points on the rear tire. The trick with different front/rear tire sizes is that you have to "shim" the front tire side wall out to the same width as the rear. That's actually quite easy, by measuring the rear tire width and using a wood plank of appropriate thickness fastened to the front wheel.

 

Wheel alignment isn't the trivial consideration on a motorcycle, that a lot of people think it is.

[mike wilson]

It is not a unilateral brake pad issue. Single front-disc motorcycles do not veer when the brake is applied.

 

Depending on how flexy the forks are and how worn they are, single brake machines most certainly do veer under braking.

 

mike

[dlaing]

It is not a steering damper issue. The damper only slows the normal fork responses to chassis forces, it does not actually change them.

70561[/snapback]

The Bitubo seems to actually have a spring in it that pushes the steering to one side.

If it is not a spring, it is air or gas pressure.

I am not sure if the force is strong enough to counter steer.

And I can't recall if the bitubo pushes in the direction required to cause this problem, but it does push.

Maybe I'll take it off and see if it stops pulling to the right.

But nobody has ever claimed to have this problem with the bitubo, so maybe my alignment is screwed and I have to live with it.

I have already adjusted the swing arm as much as it can move to the right without binding(Not Much...)

If you adjust yours, pull the rear shock so that you can move it through the range of travel and make sure it does not bind. Mine binded where I did not expect it to. So, beware.

I guess I could shim the front wheel to the right a little....