Bitubo steering damper question

[Martin Barrett]

That's the spirit! Is it worth repairing cameras? I keep seeing ads for 4 megapixel ones for less than £100 these days!

70621[/snapback]

 

I've had two fail the first (Canon A40) was beyond economic repair and I got my £40 repair/deposit back. The second (Canon A85) cost me the £70 repair/deposit but we bought a third (Canon A525) in the mean time but this time I did did get the extended warranty.

 

I don't normally bother with extended warranties as it's just the risk being spread about. But I do on tumble driers, with 5 muck monsters in the house (me and the kids) it has a hard time and the rear drum bearing shaft fails at just under 3 years.

I'm awaiting for the repair man today, it failed this week with the warranty expiring in Feb, judged it about right. Given the warranty is 1/6th of the cost.

 

Unfortunately I went and bought a replacement, as we would be two days without the drier, and they might complain where I've taken it apart to replace the belt that broke only to find the cause was the shaft. If he fixes it and we run two driers the replacement won't get the wear and won't fail during the warranty, if they don't fix it in three years time I won't take it apart to see whats wrong.

[V11UK]

Having a 'classic' green/red V11 myself and finding the steering damper useful, I thought I'd have a quick rummage....

 

The Hyperpro web site makes interesting reading. They even do one in Mad Red for that all important colour matched look .

 

 

V11 part number is MK-MG10-O 001

[bigbikerrick]

I've had two fail the first (Canon A40) was beyond economic repair and I got my £40 repair/deposit back. The second (Canon A85) cost me the £70 repair/deposit but we bought a third (Canon A525) in the mean time but this time I did did get the extended warranty.

 

I don't normally bother with extended warranties as it's just the risk being spread about. But I do on tumble driers, with 5 muck monsters in the house (me and the kids) it has a hard time and the rear drum bearing shaft fails at just under 3 years.

I'm awaiting for the repair man today, it failed this week with the warranty expiring in Feb, judged it about right. Given the warranty is 1/6th of the cost.

 

Unfortunately I went and bought a replacement, as we would be two days without the drier, and they might complain where I've taken it apart to replace the belt that broke only to find the cause was the shaft. If he fixes it and we run two driers the replacement won't get the wear and won't fail during the warranty, if they don't fix it in three years time I won't take it apart to see whats wrong.

70623[/snapback]

Yep youre prolly right, but mu fuji is still on warranty, ( I paid $375. for the bugger) Ive been down the same road as you with the dryers though...

[bigbikerrick]

Having a 'classic' green/red V11 myself and finding the steering damper useful, I thought I'd have a quick rummage....

 

The Hyperpro web site makes interesting reading. They even do one in Mad Red for that all important colour matched look  .

 

 

V11 part number is MK-MG10-O 001

70624[/snapback]

Thanks for the link, I didnt see a price on it, did I miss the price sheet?

[V11UK]

Have a look at the Hyperpro USA web site for price details .

[Ouiji Veck]

The short frame sport is known for head shake high sides.

The worst way to get off. Voice of experiance...there's nothing like being verticle

on your front tire going lock to lock. (Shutting off an 85 Ninja 600 hard, entering a corner full of Stutter bumps. 8 of the 12 sold came back to the shop for the same reason...16in front wheel) Events and conditions can reach out and slap ya.

I keep my dampner pretty stiff....I don't care how it feels @ 20 MPH

I would bet a good MX suspension man could repair the Bitubo.

Definately try it yourself. Afew pics and you'll be the resident expert.

 

I thought I had to fork out $800 to replace my

blown un-rebuildable Sachs...bleeding like a pig. It turned out to to be

"dried seals". A juice change and cleaning has got me 12,000mi.

Im going to make it a yearly ritual.

[Guest ratchethack]

The short frame sport is known for head shake high sides.

The worst way to get off.  Voice of experiance...

Say Weej - I've got a "short frame sport" and I've heard the tank-slapper stories for years, but have yet to actually experience, hear of, or even read about a single credible case that supports the idea that there's an inherent "problem" or "design flaw" with these bikes. Do you know of any?

 

I've had tank slappers offroad with dirt bikes several times over the years, but haven't had so much as a wobble with the "short frame sport" Guz (sag & chassis damping set properly, steering damper always on and cranked up higher for high speed and/or rough surface).

 

Is it possible that we might be able to retire an old wives' tale here?! Just asking, my friend. I think it's a stigma that's been unfairly applied to this bike.

 

IMHO, nearly every sensibly engineered "adult" bike (let's exclude the "stupid bikes", aka "long bikes", aka "OCC-category" bikes) can have a tank slapper. It boils down to a matter of geometries and probabilities. Seems to me that with the proper use of a steering damper, loading any bike properly - or rather, not loading it improperly, and (most importantly) having it correctly sorted WRT suspension, you can effectively skew the probabilities of headshake down to approach nil, even with the steepest of head-angles of the most modern track rockets - most of which have not only considerably steeper geometries, but are "shorter" than the "short frame sport". The "short frame sport" doesn't have enough grunt to even get into the range of circumstances where many of the hyper-powered, steeper-geometry bikes will have a much higher tendency to headshake.

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV.

[Guzzirider]

Its true- I have ridden 2 year 2000 Sports and they both wobbled at speed.

 

I understand this can be cured by adjusting suspension settings, though dont ask me they are!

 

They was a lot of talk about this on Guzzi forums in 2000 but I can't remember the exact solutions.

 

If yours does not wobble you don't need worry about it!

 

Guy

[Guest ratchethack]

I remember the discussions well, Guy. You'll see a few of my comments in amongst 'em here 'n there in more recent years. You're making my point for me. If you don't have your suspension settings set right, or don't know, don't care, etc., this isn't a credible case that supports the stigma, IMHO - because again, you can get nearly any bike to headshake if it isn't sorted.

 

I certainly don't worry about it & never have, 'cause I'm fairly confident in my chassis setup.

 

BAA TJM, but come to think of it, IMHO, YM ain't likely to V.

[dlaing]

Any bike can wobble, even "properly" set up race bikes.

The short framed V11 is probably just a little more prone to wobbles.

But Guzzis in general are not wobble prone.

I had one Continental tire that caused speed wobbles, but that does not mean all Continentals do.

Compared to a V1100Sport, the V11Sport is as loose as a wild goose. I remember much of the commentary was more about looseness and concern for stability than real high speed wobble experience.

One guy on this list was upset about it enough that, combined with other problems, he sold the bike, rather than fix the problem.

His classified ad read, something like, "runs great, nothing wrong with it"

But the good news is that if enough people think the bikes are dangerous, they'll be on eBay for $4000! And I could use a parts bike

[docc]

40,000 miles on the y2k Sport and no trouble with the wobble. I run the damper full off until the front tire wear feels a little wiggly in the corners, then up 4 clicks. I'm hoping to prolong the life of the Bitubo this way. ( That HyperPro is a beauty!)

 

There is a distinction between wobble and weave .

 

Wobble is a high amplitude shaking of the front wheel and forks that can lead to the dreaded 'tank-slapper.' I don't recall any reports of this here, even with the awful early red-for-blood framed Sports.

 

Weave is a low amplitude, typically high speed, side to side oscillation of the entire wheel base. This was quite typical in the Red Frames delivered with the angular Pirelli Dragon Corsas.

 

The weave is worsened soft suspension springing, too much sag, too much rear weight bias, low tire pressures, too much damping ( especially steering damping and compression damping both front and rear). So, yes, a proper suspension/tire set-up is great medicine!

 

The little Stucchi fairing and a loose grip on the bars also helped to ease the tendency for high speed weave.

 

It is notable that the weave reports , primarily in the press, along with the vibration complaints, primarily by the press, led new owner Aprilia to give us the frame , wheel/tire and handlebar changes of 2002. As well as firmly continuing the legend of the "Tellaio Rosso" Sports. The earliest Tellaio Rosso V7 Sport was also distinct from later versions ( for different reasons, but yet distinct).

[bigbikerrick]

Have a look at the Hyperpro USA web site for price details  .

70646[/snapback]

Thank You Sir,

[bigbikerrick]

The short frame sport is known for head shake high sides.

The worst way to get off.  Voice of experiance...there's nothing like being verticle

on your front tire going lock to lock. (Shutting off an 85 Ninja 600 hard, entering a corner full of Stutter bumps. 8 of the 12 sold came back to the shop for the same reason...16in front wheel)  Events and conditions can reach out and slap ya.

I keep my dampner pretty stiff....I don't care how it feels @ 20 MPH

I would bet a good MX suspension man could repair the Bitubo.

Definately try it yourself. Afew pics and you'll be the resident expert. 

 

I thought I had to fork out $800 to replace my

blown un-rebuildable Sachs...bleeding like a pig. It turned out to to be

"dried seals". A juice change and cleaning has got me 12,000mi.

Im going to make it a yearly ritual.

70647[/snapback]

Pardon my ignorance,but Is The leaking sachs you refer to a steering damper, or a rear shock?

[Ouiji Veck]

Say Weej - I've got a "short frame sport" and I've heard the tank-slapper stories for years, but have yet to actually experience, hear of, or even read about a single credible case that supports the idea that there's an inherent "problem" or "design flaw" with these bikes.  Do you know of any? 

 

I've had tank slappers offroad with dirt bikes several times over the years, but haven't had so much as a wobble with the "short frame sport" Guz (sag & chassis damping set properly, steering damper always on and cranked up higher for high speed and/or rough surface).

 

Is it possible that we might be able to retire an old wives' tale here?! Just asking, my friend.  I think it's a stigma that's been unfairly applied to this bike.

 

IMHO, nearly every sensibly engineered "adult" bike (let's exclude the "stupid bikes", aka "long bikes", aka "OCC-category" bikes) can have a tank slapper.  It boils down to a matter of geometries and probabilities.  Seems to me that with the proper use of a steering damper, loading any bike properly - or rather, not loading it improperly, and (most importantly) having it correctly sorted WRT suspension, you can effectively skew the probabilities of headshake down to approach nil, even with the steepest of head-angles of the most modern track rockets - most of which have not only considerably steeper geometries, but are "shorter" than the "short frame sport".  The "short frame sport" doesn't have enough grunt to even get into the range of circumstances where many of the hyper-powered, steeper-geometry bikes will have a much higher tendency to headshake.

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV.

70653[/snapback]

 

I maybe was over stating the case. I've only read a few instances of head shake/

tank slapping short framers, but it makes my blood run cold when I do. Then to read posts saying "toss the dampner"...I get a little excited.

Your making my point. Your sport is set up correctly (expertly I would say). You've had no problem. I also think it's a matter of terrain. Here in New England we suffer from a condition called "Frost Heaves" Pavement heaved up in groups of irregularly

spaced bumps and holes in the road. Perfect conditions to start the front end into

the first spasms of a tank slapper. Paradoxically the better your bike is set up to

carve fast smooth turns @ speed the more it's susceptable to the frost heaves.

For me this is where the dampner comes in.

Awww...any way...I'm just trying to talk people out of tossing their dampners.

The one time you need it ....

Sorry for casting any aspersions on the short frames...though I see the logic of it

as well as read accounts.

[Ouiji Veck]

Pardon my ignorance,but Is The leaking sachs you refer to a steering damper, or a rear shock?

70733[/snapback]

Yup...rear shock. If it starts to bleed I suggest a freshning up.

Not rebuildable but for $750 I'd get REAL creative.

The top seal is pressed/sandwiched in....nothing you can do with it....supposedly.

Maybe I got lucky...maybe a cleaning / frehs oil would save someone elses.

Worth a try... Same with the dampner...I'd be trying to find a way to keep it seviceable.

Thats just my way...thats how I got hooked on Guzzi...para millitary...field seviceable

farm equipment...I like that.