WHAAAAT? A DOWNSIDE to K&N filters?!?!

[dlaing]

Al, I checked my maintenance record, and I hadn't recorded the model number.  But I trust Dave's Web site, which lists the BMC number as F45740.

 

EDIT:  The above F4570 is FBF's part number for their lidless conversion bracket, which includes the BMC filter.  The BMC filter "code" number is 164/01.

71620[/snapback]

Ah Hah, see you edited that. trust but verify is your moto, John!

Sorry to force you to live by it.

You might want to go back and edit your edit.

I checked my box and it said 164/01 not F45740, so I lied!, sorry.

F45740 WAS the FBF part number for just the filter in the 2002 catalog.

The current FBF number is F33705 $49.95US

The airbox kit with filter is F45700 $79.95

The airbox kit, without filter(for those who already have a BMC or want paper or K&N) F45701 $32.95

The number also appears at Guzzitech.com, which may be where I got the number from.

Anyway if one needs the dimensions, the BMC is listed at 134 x 224mm

[Guest ratchethack]

Ah Hah, see you edited that.  trust but verify is your moto, John!

Sorry to force you to live by it.

You might want to go back and edit your edit.

Done. I see you've also corrected your Web site.

 

One of the strengths of this Forum is that posts are exposed to so many opportunities for correcting incorrect info.

 

Truth has a way of surfacing - even if it sometimes takes awhile.

 

So I b'lieve we've corrected each other, then?

 

Thanks, Dave.

[Alex-Corsa]

I read the test but there were a few points (perhaps contradiction) that I didn;t understand.

1.The air filter that had the lightest color was according to the test filtering better.

How that can be since the more the "prticles" and dirt restricted then the more will remain on the surface so the darker the filter will be.

2.On the text under the 3rd hpoto is written "The climate here is damp during this time of the year and definitely not dirty or dusty."

and then on the second paragraph before the end goes: " I live 90 minutes from full fledged rain forest and the soil here is black like topsoil. I guess I could take a picture of my white powder coated wheels turned black from road dirt if I had to"

 

 

Anyway reading tests can be educative and that was an interesting read.

 

Though what all these test perhaps lack is the long runs, It would be more accurate to see if and how well would filters filtrate after 5-6K km at least and the perhaps see what's the better in dirt filtration -airflow standards , but who does it?

[Guest ratchethack]

I read the test but there were a few points (perhaps contradiction) that I didn;t understand.

1.The air filter that had the lightest color was according to the test filtering better.

How that can be since the more the "prticles" and dirt restricted then the more will remain on the surface so the darker the filter will be.

Alex, as explained in the test, what showed up on the Fram filter medium in the photo's is what passed through each of the filters in the test. So the lighter colored patches in the photo's are evidence of more effective dirt capture capability.

 

Though what all these test perhaps lack is the long runs, It would be more accurate to see if and how well would filters filtrate after 5-6K km at least and the perhaps see what's the better in dirt filtration -airflow standards , but who does it?

I agree. longer-term tests would seem to provide high value. The Duramax test looked at "Dirt Passed vs. Total Test Time", but the timespans were measured in minutes. The Duramax "Dust Loading" test measured time to maximum restriction limit, but again - this was a relatively short duration time interval. There have been some air filter tests that went the expected replacement interval of the filters, but I reckon these kinds of studies are so expensive to conduct that they're few n' far between. It's probably easier to find funding for a long-range test when the filter goes on something more expensive than a motorcycle or a car. There've been more long-range tests done on filters for semi tractors and huge earthmoving equipment worth million$. BTW - where's Tx Redneck?

 

As far as standards go, there are test standards. The Duramax test followed the ISO 5011 Standard (formerly SAE J726), which defines a precise filter test using precision measurements under controlled conditions.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see a test that looks at actual engine condition after long-range effects of using different filters and compares them against NO filter over tens of thousands of miles. I read one oil filter test many years ago where taxi's were used for analysis over the long haul and engines were stripped down for measurement of actual wear, but that was the only really long-term filter test I remember seeing.

[Guest ratchethack]

I'm confused. Who cares again? 

grip it, rip it and fix it I say.

Say DeBen, I reckon most of those who REALLY don't care aren't reading this thread. But your last post was #95, so more'n a few have been at least interested enough to chime in, even if they aren't reading the tests - and even if they haven't chimed in as many times as you have.

 

But y'er more'n welcome, my friend!

[DeBenGuzzi]

I getcha I'll butt out till I have sumptin good to say.

[Guest citimoto]

ok dont shoot me but now im confused. My bike should be here next week and I want it to breathe better. I was all gun ho on the FBF replacement kit but now im not so sure. If you guys where starting with a clean slate (or clean, restrictive stock filter) what would you do? How difficult is mounting the FBF kit? Should I look at pods? Should I keep looking at older posts and getting more confused? Whats with the air filters on rossopuro? are these a KN pod type filter? Help im new to all this.

[dlaing]

ok dont shoot me but now im confused. My bike should be here next week and I want it to breathe better. I was all gun ho on the FBF replacement kit but now im not so sure. If you guys where starting with a clean slate (or clean, restrictive stock filter) what would you do? How difficult is mounting the FBF kit? Should I look at pods? Should I keep looking at older posts and getting more confused? Whats with the air filters on rossopuro? are these a KN pod type filter? Help im new to all this.

72039[/snapback]

The FBF kit is fine, and probably the least criticized of all solutions.

If you want your bike to last the longest stay with the stock filter and airbox.

The FBF kit has the BMC filter.

It apparently filters better than the K&N, so you should not be too worried about dirt getting in.

The open airbox probably makes the filter get dirtier twice as fast, and it will not perform as well in heavy rain.

But it gives the bike more power, and alot more sound(noise, music, you call it what you want)

If you go with Pods, there are a couple things I don't like.

one is what to do with the oil breathing hose?

The other is what to do with the air sensor?

But the pods look the coolest and allow for more space under the tank.

[TX REDNECK (R.I.P.)]

ok dont shoot me but now im confused. My bike should be here next week and I want it to breathe better. I was all gun ho on the FBF replacement kit but now im not so sure. If you guys where starting with a clean slate (or clean, restrictive stock filter) what would you do? How difficult is mounting the FBF kit? Should I look at pods? Should I keep looking at older posts and getting more confused? Whats with the air filters on rossopuro? are these a KN pod type filter? Help im new to all this.

72039[/snapback]

 

Just ride it for now

[Guest citimoto]

hey I have to entertain myself somehow. the bike wont be shipping until next Tuesday so im chomping at the bit. Plus christmas is over and the kids are back to their usual 5 and two and a half year old bratty selves and our house was broken into right before Christmas. Visions of mods dancing in my head is all I have right now as I am curently bikeless (sold the others last spring) and in need of therapy.

[Greg Field]

Alex:

 

I live in Seattle, near where the tester does. There is no contradiction in the points you cited, though I can understand why you might think there was.

 

It is not dusty here. In fact, the roads are wet or damp for 6-8 months of the year. The dirt is black but tends to be kept to road surfaces by the rain and dampness. When one drives on the roads, the black mud ends up on the vehicle's wheels. Little of it is stirred into the air where it would get sucked into air filters. This is what he was trying to say.

[stogieBill]

My FWIW,

 

I am at a place in my life where top performance of my motorcycles is not the highest priority. Running smoothly and reliably is more important.

 

If I were into a lot of track days and other performance venues, I'd be more inclined to look for a better breathing system.

 

Even though there's more than enough relative humidity in Eureka, I never found the OEM paper filters lacking. I'll stay with what the manufacturer deemed most appropriate for the "average" rider.

 

Happy trails,

[gh67]

The open airbox probably makes the filter get dirtier twice as fast, and it will not perform as well in heavy rain.

If you go with Pods, there are a couple things I don't like.

one is what to do with the oil breathing hose?

The other is what to do with the air sensor?

But the pods look the coolest and allow for more space under the tank.

72044[/snapback]

just to toss in my

I have had both the lidless airbox and pods, both of which I have ridden in significant rain without even an hiccup. I do have some K&N rain "resistant" covers I put on my pods for rain or really dusty riding.

 

oil breather hose (basically a rubber fuel line) - go to a parts supply store and buy the same inner diameter but make it about 2.5 feet longer...enough to route down near the fuel tank overflow line under the bike.

 

air temp sensor - I used the solution elsewhere on this forum and modified a 35mm film canister (with one end open) and zip tied it near the right throttle body in a manner so that it would stay dry and minimize sensing hot air coming from engines.

 

I have the pods now and will keep it that way...I love the no airbox look. And for me, the honk of the open lid was too much on long rides.

 

cheers

[DeBenGuzzi]

oil breather hose (basically a rubber fuel line) - go to a parts supply store and buy the same inner diameter but make it about 2.5 feet longer...enough to route down near the fuel tank overflow line under the bike.

72077[/snapback]

I am SOOO doing that once she gets out of storage(the shed) I was wondering what the hell to do.

[Alex-Corsa]

I checked my box and it said 164/01 .

 

Anyway if one needs the dimensions, the BMC is listed at  134 x 224mm

 

 

Yep that's right and that helped me the other day to get one for mine.I just gave this number (164/01). This filter is also the same with the one that Gagiva Navigator 1000 has.

The fit into the box is perfect .