Now, that's EXTREME !

[Alex-Corsa]

Don't assume it's the engine. Does the bike "roll" with minimal resistance. Check the brakes for rubbing and bearings etc.

 

What do you exactly mean by rolling with minimal resistance??

 

Bearings are relativelly new 4-6Tkm on them (4-3 months old)

 

Jrt here is the strange thing O.K. with the custom chips "open" and Creedon"

the plugs look rich at the area of 1000-4000+Rpm. (more I have not tested.)

 

 

With the older chip It used to have , the plug comes out fine BUT still the consumption is about the same perhaps 5-8% LESS overall than the other 2, and that's no big deal in a 10+ to 13,5lt/100 that I have with the others,

 

Question is where is all this benzine going if the burn is going NOT rich.Can't find any damn leaks and it's freaking me out (at the moment)

 

Plugs on old chip (as used to always look)(10-12.6lt/100km)

 

 

I would relate it to the Cold-Rich but O.K. no7 of the reference map

Plugs reference map

 

Plugs with the bit "richer" custom chips(10,5-13,5 lt/100km). about this

Carbon Fouled

 

Will try updating the photos. Will make some runs and stop the bike after sertain rpm and see more about it.

 

The wisest think to to and I have not thought about it is to try finding and connecting the bike's Self-diagnostic and view the codes , then try to find if any sensor is indicated as malfunctioning or so.

 

Thanks so far for everyone for it's input.

[jrt]

That plug is much darker than mine, which are light tan and little or no blackening.

 

The fuel may be going out the exhast pipe without being burnt. The whole system is pretty hot, so the fuel never condenses. Do you have access to a hydrocarbon tester?

 

I think what is meant by rolling resistance is - put the bike in neutral and push it. If the brakes are binding, then you will feel resistance.

 

I think going after the sensors is a good idea. Good luck with it.

[Alex-Corsa]

That plug is much darker than mine, which are light tan and little or no blackening.

 

The fuel may be going out the exhast pipe without being burnt.  The whole system is pretty hot, so the fuel never condenses.  Do you have access to a hydrocarbon tester? 

 

I think what is meant by rolling resistance is - put the bike in neutral and push it.  If the brakes are binding, then you will feel resistance.

 

I think going after the sensors is a good idea.  Good luck with it.

 

1 Starts to make sence now.Buy pretty hot you mean there is too much air going in?or the opposite happens?

2.Nope my carbon tune arrives next week , by then I'll try finding a workshop that:

a)messes with Italian bikes b)has available time.

Oxygene sensor and stuff I'm ordering,will take couple of weeks.

 

Thanks for the evaluation,y'know when stuck with a problem mind tends to stop, no matter what you may know.

[Guest mtiberio]

didn't read the whole thread, so someone may have answered this. It sounds like the temp sensor that tells the FI to turn off the "choke" is disconnected or the sensor is bad.

[Alex-Corsa]

didn't read the whole thread, so someone may have answered this. It sounds like the temp sensor that tells the FI to turn off the "choke" is disconnected or the sensor is bad.

 

Dunno , does the 16M have an auto choke, through the sensor??But al sensors will be checked.

 

And the most easy way to check the sensors is through the Self Diagnostic unit of the 16M

Well ,according to the workshop manual some pulses will be noticable from the diagnose lamp (found on the back side under the brake fluid box) if the diagnostic "free" socket (see pic no.2 socket) is connected to another free socket.

 

 

HERE IS WHAT I DON'T KNOW The only male socket I could find was the socket no.1 of the pic. The question IS ( do you hear Callison? should I plug in the socket 1 to socket 2?

The strange thing is that the socket 1 doesn't connects anywhere, It is totally free with two if it's poles SORTCIRCUITED. IS this how this socket supposed to be??

 

Got this bike second hand and dunno if this socket is touched or not.

 

 

I measured and set the TPS voltage today that was found at first 152 mv BUT with both bodies conncted with the syncronisation rod.

 

I have disconnected the rod and after constructing some wires(linkages) thin but hard enouch to retain their ability to stay put in the TPS socket. I have pluged in the socket and reset the TPS by unscrewing both screws and moving slightly the Pod the derections(as sown in the pic.)

 

Moving the sensor to the yellow arrow direction increased voltage while red decreased

 

When I got the voltage I wanted I screwed again and stabilised the sensor. I got 149mv , closer I couldn't go.

 

I did measure the points A&C as here in this page is suggested.

 

To tell you the truth I had moved the sencor accidentally first and the reading was

930mv or so and I thought I was measuring the wrong spots, so I measured the A&B and showed me the same reading.

.

Dunno but I have measured the 149mv only at the A&C positions

 

Due to lack of the correct instrumens at the moment it wasn't possible to measure a 2500rpm tps voltage with engine on .Will do when my diagnostic tools arrive.

 

Latter on I'll show you with some more pics how to do those linkages to get them

inside the sensor socket.I'ts a bit tricky but there is a smal secret my experience as electronic gave me.

 

I have reinstalled the Dynotec chip that the bike had with,It's stalling sometimes but there is no black smoke coning out of the pipes.

Latter on as my Diagnostic software and stuff will arrive I will do a more percise work on what's faulty.

I plan also to post 3D diagrams of every chip as well as dyno charts in the future,will see.

 

 

P.S. Nice cornering there "mtiberio" what's the bike and which tires does it have on?

 

Happy Christmas to everybody.

[Alex-Corsa]

I don't know where the regulator is on your bike.

 

Well I forgot , if you give me a part number then I'll locate it for sure.

Do you or anyone have any.

Thanks

[dlaing]

Well I forgot , if you give me a part number then I'll locate it for sure.

Do you or anyone have any.

Thanks

71816[/snapback]

Unless it is in the gas tank, it should not be hard to find.

On the V11S it looks like this and is on the right side of the tank

[dlaing]

Regarding your leaner plug reading, it is difficult to tell from the photograph if that is all black than it is too rich. If it has tan colors mixed in like image 7, than it MAY be ok. But it does not look tan to me.

You can ignore the black on the perimeter, as that is normal, but the blackness of the insulator indicates that it is far too rich.

Because of the camera flash it is difficult to photograph, but it looks like mostly black with white ash, which I believe would indicate a combination of too rich and too lean. The look of white may just be the glow of the camera flash.

 

 

In any case, you may have found your solution by setting the TPS correctly!

It was way off, but strangely in the lean direction....weird.

 

Here is an article you may enjoy.

http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/sport_11.htm

Keep in mind the Creedon chip in this article is probably several revisions old.

[Alex-Corsa]

Unless it is in the gas tank, it should not be hard to find.

On the V11S it looks like this and is on the right side of the tank

 

Thanks for the info I know which you mean now ,yes it's located on the same side on my bike as well and looks identical.

P.S. Dunno if there is a physical way to check this oyt (except the Diagnostic software and perhaps the Self Diag. of the bike.. )Is it?

 

Concerning the plug it looks a bit different in the hpoto I admit.I'll have to make a pic in ambient light without any flash.....next time.

 

Concerning the Creed chip, seems that I have the same version WPC12 , that's what's writing on it. It has very close values on spark advance and Delta injector timings with the Dynotec,but bit richer in base injector opening times concerning the throttle deg-RPM and so on. Can't tell you how all these are translated to A/F ratio but that's the long story short

The so called "racing" chip is a totally different story.

 

Thanks for the link.Throw me some more of the kind if you have (either PM or here)

[Guest mtiberio]

.......

 

P.S. Nice cornering there "mtiberio" what's the bike and which tires does it have on?

 

Happy Christmas    to everybody.

71813[/snapback]

 

 

well you now have the entire sum of my guzzi FI knowledge. I would have assumed all FI systems have a temp sensor somewhere, and if the computer thought the motor was cold that it would "richen up" (=choke) the system.

 

that photo was from the 91 AMA Pro Twins race at Loudon NH. The bike has an 850-T frame, 992cc round fin motor with RACECO 45.5 intake valves, RR3 cam, transcontinental clutch with no ring-gear, a wide street box and 6:32 gears. the only reason I know that is, ed milich has all my old data and "Mike's Bike" MGNOC columns posted on his site, and I can refer to them.

http://www.guzzitech.com/Mikesbike.html

The wheels were 3.5x17 front and 4x18 rear, both astralites. I ran a soft 250 gp front slick on the front, and the only thing that would work on the rear was a 140 dot (needed the sidewall height). I ran a massive ammount of wheel offset to fit it into the dimpled and braced short swing arm, at least 10mm. I had to dremel the heck out of the caliper hanger to get it all to fit, and of course I had to remove the rear drive to get the wheel/tire out...

[Alex-Corsa]

well you now have the entire sum of my guzzi FI knowledge. I would have assumed all FI systems have a temp sensor somewhere, and if the computer thought the motor was cold that it would "richen up" (=choke) the system.

Well there are a couple of sensors like these in my bike, one that plugs into the top left cylinder cover. (engine oil temp. AFAIK) and the other somewhere under the fairing thats; about air temp.

Dunno how that oil temp. works but I think there's no auto choke function for the 16M, Though I may be wrong.Definatelly wrong oil temp will give wrong info to the ECU,leading to wrong mapping.

 

Cheers

[Guest mtiberio]

well its easy to measure water temp on water cooled bikes...

 

a friend has a air cooled FI ducati monster, and his mileage took a sh*t after he forgot to hook up his oil temp sensor after routine maintenance. He was driving around for weeks getting rotten consumption numbers, once we figured it out, it ran like it used to...

[Alex-Corsa]

well its easy to measure water temp on water cooled bikes...

 

a friend has a air cooled FI ducati monster, and his mileage took a sh*t after he forgot to hook up his oil temp sensor after routine maintenance. He was driving around for weeks getting rotten consumption numbers, once we figured it out, it ran like it used to...

 

I start to believe that is this is also happening to my bike because from the look I have that sensor socket on the left motor cover looks a bit beaten up.

At the moment this can show up in the self Diagnostic of the 16M but I don't know if the male socket is the correct one. so I don't check.

 

Friend of mine (among his Guzzi's )has this leman II but an USA version with 1000cc and aftermarket big aluminium tank wants to conver it like this here (except the tank that will stay)

More custom build here Guzziladen and the set Custom set.

 

 

 

Check your PM

Edited December 25, 2005 by Alex-Corsa

[Guest mtiberio]

Thank you for the PM, and the links. I love that "open air" or "see through" look.

 

Please excuse my previous use of idiomatic or colloquial English. I didn't realize you were from Germany. It was rude of me.

 

Good luck with all your repairs, projects and modifications.

[Alex-Corsa]

No problem , I'm not from Germany anyway though I speak German as well and lived there before for sometime. I enjoy English I first started to learn as I was 5

 

Actually this convet has USD fork and another swingarm to take a 160 tire, and as I have heared is ridable,so good luck to my friend as well then with the conversion The fork is variable but I think he pictures a GSXR fork in the pics of the set.

 

Well I'll do my best thanks to all the usefull knowlege I gained in this great forum all these months I hang around......

I became a forum :alcoholic." ....hmmmm errr/?

 

 

You might as well visit DAES and see also some pretty nice convertions and Guzzi stuff.