Breaking in new tires

[Alex-Corsa]

You can say that again "drknow"

Doin it right is all it needs.

[Ouiji Veck]

I'm of the "Ride like it's rainning" for half of the day, then like it

"had been rainning" the rest of the day mentality.

Good way to put it. 36yrs...lots of tires.

[Steve G.]

Rubbing down new or old tires with aggressive or caustic liquids is something I wouldn't do. I'd like to know what a tire engineer/chemist would have to say about this.

Soapy water, that's it for me. Even when removing the spits of grease or chain lube [yes chains on other bikes] off the wheels, wd40 is sprayed on a clean rag, then carefully dabbed on the wheels to clean off.

Ciao, Steve G.

[Guest ratchethack]

Well, I don't have the professional racing experience of some around here, and I'm neither a tire engineer or a chemist. I'm just an amateur motorcycle guy and a bit of a Road Geez. But I happen to have a degree in Biochemistry, and I reckon I know my way around inorganic, organic and biochem labs.

 

With brief surface application, the solvent components of lacquer thinner I listed above are entirely harmless to even the most sophisticated tire compounds in the concentrations they appear in such common commercial products as lacquer thinner.

 

Though the MSDS on lacquer thinner no doubt recommends handling with nitrile gloves (safety first - the legal profession and regulatory bureaucracies have healthy appetites, don'tcha know ) The ingredients are all so relatively benign in their commercial dilute forms that you can safely experience brief exposure to bare skin with no danger and there's not even any need to wash it off IMHO. I use low-grade rubber gloves when handling it just for safety's sake.

 

Lacquer thinner used to have a low percentage of xylene in it but this is long gone due to it's proven cancer-causing effects when injected directly into the bloodstream (presumably, lab animals were used to discover this). I used to wash parts in lacquer thinner with xylene for years and often got it all over my hands. Works like a Champ to zip thru engine gunk and it ain't as effective today as it used to be with xylene. I wouldn't soak my tires in a pan of the stuff overnight, but a quick wipe (as I've been doing) is entirely harmless to tires.

 

Now if I were to use concentrated nitric acid, there might be a roughing up of the surface of the tire (and even then, just the surface), but then, conc. nitric is in an entirely separate class of material than the ingredients of lacquer thinner - even when any of the components are in concentrated form. Concentrated nitric will zip thru a shop towel like a hot knife thru butter, releasing some interesting highly toxic vapor.

 

None of the solvent components of lacquer thinner will "soak in" to a tire and "infect it" like some kind of alien flesh-eating bacteria, even if allowed time to "soak".

 

Mold release, protectant spray or no, by the time a new tire gets mounted, there's no telling what miracles of modern chemistry a tire might have been subjected to in shipping and handling, let alone by the shop that mounted it. A quick wipe-down with soapy water or even gasoline would give me more peace of mind than nothing, but I reckon lacquer thinner removes all doubt - and safely so.

 

BAA, TJM, & YMM in some circumstances slightly V

[Guest drknow]

<quote>

Well, I don't have the professional racing experience of some around here, and I'm neither a tire engineer or a chemist.

 

<snip> Umm, ok.

 

With brief surface application, the solvent components of lacquer thinner I listed above are entirely harmless to even the most sophisticated tire compounds in the concentrations they appear in such common commercial products as lacquer thinner.

 

<snip>I'd like to know how you think that a chemical change, minor only in your estimation, could be considered a benign thing. Pulling any of the "volitiles" out of the surface of a tire could easily reduce the grip, maybe only for a few thousands of an inch, but hey, that could be waaaaaay worse than some garage dust, etc.

 

None of the solvent components of lacquer thinner will "soak in" to a tire and "infect it" like some kind of alien flesh-eating bacteria, even if allowed time to "soak".

 

I am pretty sure that we can get a tire engineer to state positively that if lacquer thinner was left on the tire for any length of time, it would be detrimental to the grip characteristics of the tire.

 

Mold release, protectant spray or no, by the time a new tire gets mounted, there's no telling what miracles of modern chemistry a tire might have been subjected to in shipping and handling, let alone by the shop that mounts it. A quick wipe-down in soapy water or even gasoline would give me more peace of mind than nothing, but I reckon lacquer thinner removes all doubt - and safely so.

 

Hey, I would agree with you in principle excluding the lacquer thinner. A quick wipe down with soapy water to remove some small amount of grease, soap or tire lubricant residue, or dust etc would be nice. As I stated before though, I think that it's much ado about nothing, as a few gentle, progressively higher lean angle corners will take care of the problem easily, but a nice warm bath never hurts, right?

 

dk

[Guzzirider]

Errrrmm isn't it easier to just ride the thing?

 

Guy

[Steve G.]

Errrrmm isn't it easier to just ride the thing?

 

Guy 

72614[/snapback]

 

YES!

[dlaing]

Errrrmm isn't it easier to just ride the thing?

 

Guy 

72614[/snapback]

Not if you crash it.

I'd like to think that I'll always break the tire in cautiously, but I find it unnerving taking the first few turns and trying to get deeper and deeper into the turns.

On a race track or a country road it is pretty easy. All you have to do is be patient, but doing it on city intersections is not one of my greatest pleasures.

Also, I wonder if one of the reasons my chicken strips are so large is that my chicken strips are so large, if you know what I mean...I almost feel like letting a better rider break my tires in for me.

[Guest ratchethack]

<quote>

<snip>I'd like to know how you think that a chemical change, minor only in your estimation, could be considered a benign thing. Pulling any of the "volitiles" out of the surface of a tire could easily reduce the grip, maybe only for a few thousands of an inch,  but hey, that could be waaaaaay worse than some garage dust, etc.

I am pretty sure that we can get a tire engineer to state positively that if lacquer thinner was left on the tire for any length of time, it would be detrimental to the grip characteristics of the tire.

Hey, I would agree with you in principle excluding the lacquer thinner. A quick wipe down with soapy water to remove some small amount of grease, soap or tire lubricant residue, or dust etc would be nice. As I stated before though, I think that it's much ado about nothing, as a few gentle, progressively higher lean angle corners will take care of the problem easily, but a nice warm bath never hurts, right?

Well, Doc, I don't wanna get into a solvent-spraying contest with you, but for starters, I would encourage you to chat with a tire engineer if y'er so inclined. It might be important to understand that the solvents in lacquer thinner have no reactive potential with any of the chemical components of tires, both compounds being relatively chemically inert. This means that there is no "chemical change" (to use your terms) possible when placed in contact. I'm sure your tire engineer would concur.

 

As far as pulling "volatiles" out of a few thousandths of an inch of the surface of a tire, this is exactly what I hope to achieve with a wipe-down of lacquer thinner! It's simply more effective than soapy water at doing the same thing.

 

One of the properties of lacquer thinner that makes it so effective as a solvent is that it's so volatile that it evaporates on surfaces very rapidly, leaving behind almost no residue. This makes it ideal as a final surface prep for painting. I would expect that any "residue" left behind on a tire after a quick wipe-down to be undetectable with the most sophisticated spectrum analysis, or even resonance analysis.

 

You can no doubt find someone with some laboratory qualifications who will say that lacquer thinner on a tire for some indeterminate length of time would be detrimental. You've already found one here, since I agree. If you soaked tires in an enclosed vat of heated lacquer thinner for a few months, the tire compounds would no doubt begin to soften at the surface as the more volatile components went into solution. Going into solution would be a change in physical properties without a "chemical change". But this isn't at all what I'm suggesting.

 

Hey - I'm not even suggesting that anyone do what I do. It's a free country. But a quick wipe of the surface of a new tire with lacquer thinner ain't gonna hurt any tire, and I'm sure your tire engineer would agree if you pose the question "quick wipe down with a towel" rather than "soaking in a vat".

 

If we can't agree on this that's fine with me but it's getting a little tedious now and I, for one, am losing interest, as I've got Guzzi maintenance on the agenda!

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

Errrrmm isn't it easier to just ride the thing?

 

Guy 

72614[/snapback]

 

Some good advice I have had is to ride the bike at a high speed (your choice if you wish to exceed speed limits) for about 15 minutes to get as much heat as possible into the tires then ride the bike on the best winding road you can find while the tires are hot. The more temperature into the tires the more volatiles are released.

The best way is if you have access to tire warmers. Heat the tires for 15 minutes and then repeat the winding road.

[dlaing]

I can't imagine the mix of gas, oil, atf, dogpiss, and antifreeze that is all over the road is good for a tire either.

But I think brake cleaner would be a no-no.

Just working with that stuff eats through latex gloves in seconds.

Are tires today, more like Nitrile or Latex?

[Martin Barrett]

I can't imagine the mix of gas, oil, atf, dogpiss, and antifreeze that is all over the road is good for a tire either.

But I think brake cleaner would be a no-no.

Just working with that stuff eats through latex gloves in seconds.

Are tires today, more like Nitrile or Latex?

72629[/snapback]

 

What about "copaslip" washed down from the callipers by brake cleaner

 

[Guzzirider]

Not if you crash it.

72621[/snapback]

 

Maybe I'm just used to greasy roads anyway- always rains or snows here in the winter and there is loads of crap around like diesel and wet leaves- I broke my new Diablo Corsas in during a wet ride over the Peak District with no problems at all.

 

I still have half an inch of chicken strip left after 150 miles- I shall fry these once the weather gets better!

 

Guy

[Guzzirider]

What about "copaslip" washed down from the callipers by brake cleaner

 

At least your tyres won't rust!

[Guzzirider]

Just been rereading the whole thread- after all these worries has anyone on a Guzzi actually crashed because of slippery new tyres?

 

I know many many Guzzi riders and have never heard of one instance. I know from my days riding powerful fours that you get more wheelspin on a four than a Guzzi which tends to just dig in once you give it a handful- I know we are not infallible when it comes to crashing but are we getting a bit paranoid here?

 

Guy