Gyroscopic Effect

[Orson]

I know that inline 4's create a gyroscopic effect at higher RPMs that makes the bike want to stand up straight whilst in mid-corner.

 

My question is...are Guzzis immune to this particular effect due to their longitudal layout?

 

[Martin Barrett]

I know that inline 4's create a gyroscopic effect at higher RPMs that makes the bike want to stand up straight whilst in mid-corner.

 

My question is...are Guzzis immune to this particular effect due to their longitudal layout?

 

72375[/snapback]

 

The inline four - is across the frame so hence a gyroscopic effect.

the guzzi is longatudenal so the rotating moment is around the crank axis and theoreticly will force you down in right handers and up in left handers (provided i've got the rotation the right way) but i dont think the effect is as great as that of the rotary engine on a sopwith camel

[Orson]

but i dont think the effect is as great as that of the rotary engine on a sopwith camel 

72378[/snapback]

lol

 

I've read those biplanes are tricky to fly. Heard that if you apply a little too much throttle on take off, the right wing dips into the ground with less than desirable results

[Alex-Corsa]

The inline four - is across the frame so hence a gyroscopic effect.

the guzzi is longatudenal so the rotating moment is around the crank axis and theoreticly will force you down in right handers and up in left handers (provided i've got the rotation the right way) but i dont think the effect is as great as that of the rotary engine on a sopwith camel 

 

Personally I haven't noticed anything about this effect when in steering corners.

Countersteering is the name of the game.

[Martin Barrett]

lol

 

I've read those biplanes are tricky to fly. Heard that if you apply a little too much throttle on take off, the right wing dips into the ground with less than desirable results

72381[/snapback]

 

Great for dog fighting only if turning the right way.

 

 

There are a whole lot of forces acting on your Guzzi. I haven't a clue about the magnatude and efffects of any in particular. We make all the nessecary calculations subconsiously. Otherwise it would be awkward taking ones gloves and boots off to to these calculations manualy.

 

Next you'll be wanting to put lighter componets or shave your fly wheel

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

I can't wait for Steve G and Al to answer this one. I'll just keep quiet for now.

[Orson]

Personally I haven't noticed anything about this effect when in steering corners.

72382[/snapback]

I'm of a same mind. I have noticed it on my old FJ 1100...not the Guzzi.

 

which leads to my next question...

 

Do Guzzis get any benefits over inline 4's when negotiating S-turns? I'd guess not due to the long wheelbase.

[Martin Barrett]

I can't wait for Steve G and Al to answer this one. I'll just keep quiet for now.

72385[/snapback]

 

Okay Jim, on yer heliocoptor, does it turn significantly faster with the direction of rotor rotation?

[coz1100]

I've always thought it fun too stand the bike strait up with the clutch in and give it a rev. When you standing still, it'll pull the bike to the right. It's a fun way to show off to the friend.

 

This is counterd by the shaft when the bikes in motion. Engin rotates clock wise, drive shaft goes counter clock wise. It seems to eliminat most of the jerks.

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

Okay Jim, on yer heliocoptor, does it turn significantly faster with the direction of rotor rotation?

72395[/snapback]

 

Not signifcantly. The tailrotor provides thrust to counter the rotation of the mainrotor. The rpm of the mainrotor remains constant so the only change is the increased torque when the pitch of the rotors is increased or decreased. If the rpm of the rotor were changing it may have a significant effect.

 

As for motorcycles and Moto Guzzi's.... I'll just point out a few things and let everyone have their take on it.

 

From straightdope.com

 

A spinning object has angular momentum, whose magnitude is dependent on the speed of rotation, the mass of the object, and the distribution of that mass with respect to the axis of rotation. Angular momentum, like its homely cousin linear momentum, is conserved. For our purposes this means that once a gyroscope gets lined up in a certain way, it wants to stay lined up. That, in short, is how gyroscopic stabilization works.

 

Angular momentum is a vector quantity--it points in a definite direction. For example, a rolling coin has a different direction of angular momentum than a coin spinning like a top. The trouble with angular momentum is that, since it involves something that's turning, often it's not obvious what that direction is.

 

Fortunately, physicists have come up with a convention for the direction of angular momentum that makes angular momentum physics easy. This convention is known as the Right Hand Rule. Using your right hand, curl your fingers in the direction an object is spinning. Your thumb points in the direction of the angular momentum vector. (There are cross products and moments of inertia and other fancy physics stuff involved--if you're sufficiently fascinated, get a book or take a physics course.)

 

This should point out that when engine rpm remains constant then the rotation of the engine in a Moto Guzzi will have little effect on cornering with respect to ease of leaning the bike. There will be effect from increasing or decreasing the rpm of the engine however.

[Martin Barrett]

... Blah blah ....

Right Hand Rule

... Blah blah ...

 

72404[/snapback]

 

Arh Flemmings Right Hand Rule

 

Put your hand in the pistol grip position -

Forefinger - direction of magnetic Field

Index - current (I)

thuMb - Motion

 

can't remember if right hand rule was for motors and left hand rule for generators

or vise a versa. But as you ride your Guzzi through the earths magnetic field it will generate a current that causes your ECU fuse to blow. There you go Carl solved it, when you braked your forks compressed causing the spine frame to be at the correct angle of dip in relation to the earths magnetic field the blow as you struck your neighbours car magnatised your frame. And your fuse blows because of Mr Flemmings rules, you can stop it by not riding through (east or west) the earth's magnetic field. You should be safe as long as you go north south (magnetic of course)

[dlaing]

The inline four - is across the frame so hence a gyroscopic effect.

the guzzi is longatudenal so the rotating moment is around the crank axis and theoreticly will force you down in right handers and up in left handers (provided i've got the rotation the right way) but i dont think the effect is as great as that of the rotary engine on a sopwith camel 

72378[/snapback]

I could be wrong, but this is how I understand it:

It won't force you down and up in right and lefts unless you are accellerating.

If you are de-accellerating the force is the opposite.

If the throttle is steady the bike is flickable equally to either direction, while an inline four when you flick it, it has to overcome the gyroscopic force, but once it overcomes it, it will stablize it.

I guess inline four force could be perceived as standing the bike up, but that is probably it just fighting against rider input.

The Guzzi only fights you when accellerating and deaccellerating...but it is barely perceptible at speed where the gyroscopic forces of the wheels are much greater.

The stablizing gyroscopic effect of the engines makes the Guzzi a smoother ride for touring, especially at higher revs and speeds.

[Pierre]

I know that inline 4's create a gyroscopic effect at higher RPMs that makes the bike want to stand up straight whilst in mid-corner.

 

My question is...are Guzzis immune to this particular effect due to their longitudal layout?

 

72375[/snapback]

 

I love this stuff. And as a rank amateur with NO engineering background, I can't help but weigh in.

 

OK - here's what's going on - and we're referring to motor effect only. You have no gyroscopic effect preventing the bike from "tipping in" - but you do have a gyroscopic effect preventing wheelies and stoppies.

 

I believe that's why it's a bike for the "older" set.

 

FWIW, I've spoken to a racer who has offset the rear wheel on his race Guzzi to counter the "torque" (not the same as "gyroscopic) effect of the motor. Of course he spins his to nearly 10K so he may be inviting more "effect" than most of us would normally feel. that said, there's been a persistent rumor over the years (bike mags etc.) that Guzzi's "tip in" better in one direction than the other. I'm guessing it's the motor torque effect - but of course whether it's helping or inhibiting in any one instance depends on whether you're on or off the throttle.

 

All JM untrained and very HO.

 

 

Pierre

[John in Leeds]

The way I see it (as another rank amateur)

 

Two sets of forces - Gyroscopic and torque

 

Guzzi, gyroscopic forces allows roll but resists pitch and yaw - torque on rising or falling engine speed assists or resists the roll

 

In line 4, gyroscopic forces allow pitch but resist roll and yaw - torque on rising or falling engine speed assists or resists pitch (wheelies or stoppies)

 

I suspect the way I ride neither make a jot of difference

[Guzzirider]

I've been riding for Guzzis for so long that I notice nothing- it all seems natural.

 

What is weird is when I take the R6 out for a ride- all that speed and handling seems unnatural and the gyroscopic effect is in my brain which can't cope with the pace!

 

Guy