Gyroscopic Effect

[Alex-Corsa]

I've been riding for Guzzis for so long that I notice nothing- it all seems natural.

 

What is weird is when I take the R6 out for a ride- all that speed and handling seems unnatural and the gyroscopic effect is in my brain which can't cope with the pace!

Guy 

What's the unnatural about it?

Do you mean the shape -sound?

[Guzzirider]

It is light, flickable, revvy, fast and pulls wheelies in the first 3 gears I am too used to riding slow Guzzi tractors!

 

Guy

[DeBenGuzzi]

The way I see it (as another rank amateur)

 

Two sets of forces - Gyroscopic and torque

 

Guzzi, gyroscopic forces allows roll but resists pitch and yaw - torque on rising or falling engine speed assists or resists the roll

 

In line 4, gyroscopic forces allow pitch but resist roll and yaw - torque on rising or falling engine speed assists or resists pitch (wheelies or stoppies)

 

I suspect the way I ride neither make a jot of difference

72449[/snapback]

so youre saying that doing a wheelie on a inline 4 is much easier? that the natural forces at work help bring the front up on ya? Neat. I still like vee-twins better for some reason.

[Alex-Corsa]

It is light, flickable, revvy, fast and pulls wheelies in the first 3 gears I am too used to riding slow Guzzi tractors!

 

Guy 

 

Yep that's surely is. <_>

 

 

P.S. Concerning the other subject here, the way I see it is:

It's everything on the road. I see how the bike acts and reacts and make it move the way I want.

To much indepth s**t is practically useless, everything is on the road .

[DeBenGuzzi]

It is light, flickable, revvy, fast and pulls wheelies in the first 3 gears I am too used to riding slow Guzzi tractors!

 

Guy 

72453[/snapback]

wheelie in all 3? and its an r6? wow I'm impressed they are doing something better than Suzuki thats for sure, Friend of mine has this

and it'll do a wheelie but its so much work it needs a new pipe and a bigger sprocket or something.

[Guzzirider]

The wheelies are accidental of course!

 

I have ridden my neighbours GSXR600 and it is quite fast but very uncomfortable- the bars are a lot lower than the R6 and your bum is higher in the air.

 

The front end does not seem as good as the R6 but it looks very nice with polished wheels.

 

I find 600s like too much hard work- very quick but the real power does not kick in on the R6 until 12000 revs then it goes mental- if was ever to go back to riding fours regularly (unlikely as I love twins) then it would have to be a bigger motor with more torque.

 

Helen keeps talking about selling the R6 as she now has a V11 but she has had such good times on it, it now has sentimental value and she can't part with it

 

Guy

[Orson]

The Guzzi only fights you when accellerating and deaccellerating...but it is barely perceptible at speed where the gyroscopic forces of the wheels are much greater.

The stablizing gyroscopic effect of the engines makes the Guzzi a smoother ride for touring, especially at higher revs and speeds.

72416[/snapback]

Lots of interesting replies.

 

Thanks to all for their input

[Ouiji Veck]

I love the way mine handles even though my last bike was a Ducati (for sale if any

of you want a real fun PLAY bike).

The LeMans is defenately not a "flickable" bike....which is fine by me.

I think it's more natural for me than others because I use my body (ass) to steer

more than counter steering at speed...carving graceful turns.

Next time your out, find your favorite corner, Set up early (wide) slide your ass

a little on the seat to the in side of the turn...maybe get your knee out just a little and your chest in the direction of the turn and gas it out of the apex. You'll come out thinking "I could have done that 20mph faster" if you put it all togeather correctly. When it's

all working real well for me I get the sensation of pulling the bike down to me.

I'm not talking Joe racer here. Just graceful arcs. I can't say this is the best, safest,

or correct way to ride but it works very well for me on the big moose and I've been

riding like this for many years. Just a little body english. As a further disclaimer

no one I know rides like this and they're all on big fat Beemers and ride the wheels off 'em. This isn't racing and I tend to do all my excellerating in the corner not on the straight...max fun and keeps the pace sane.

In context to the thread ( I think I got off topic..?) I am only aware of inertia and mass

which on the LeMans have the best feature of all....PREDICTABLE. Excellerating out of

a corner I'm shure it streightens up by itself. I don't know what forces are in play but

I'm not aware of it acting any different than my CBR 1000 (another moose) Then

again I'm not riding extreem enough to tell if I have a full tank of gas or on reserve. Imagine how much difference that should make!..and with tools, raingear

and a 12 pack in my tank bag!! ( I got a BIG tank bag!)

Comming off a 600?? Yea..a Guzzi would tend to require a little adjusting to...

and visa versa...

Man! I do go on...screw all that...just have FUN.

[Murray]

Gyroscopic effect is 90 degrees from the piont of input In the plane of rotation this is why countersteering works. With e inline motor or probally should say a laterally mounted crank pretty much most bikes these days it will depend on the direction of engine rotation actualy engine configuration is pretty irrelevant as far as we are concerned. Some of the 500 strokers and the ill fated Vee-Due had two counter rotating cranks to counter the inputs the rotating crank would put into the chassi. It will either load up the front wheel on tip and unload it on exit or unload the front wheel on the way in etc etc.

 

Depends on the rider bike frame and quite a few other factors weather this is of benifit. The effect is relativly small the average road rider would be hard pressed to ever notice it. So yes from this piont of view a Guzzi will maintian its front-rear balance much better on the way in and out of corners. However the torque effect changes the way the bike tends to tip into and out of the corner I was talking to a Ex Stolarski racer who use to run one of the Magni Australia prototypes quiet a few years ago now. The local track has a sweeping medium pace up hill left hander followed by a little right kink striaght after.

 

To help the bike change directions quicker the racers used to come out of the left hander and dip the clutch as they passed thru upright to help the bike lean into the right kink. Intresting technic but can't say I have ever really tried it not sure if I want to with a pushrod motor and no rev limiter. (Magnis were four valvers).

 

[Guest golden goose]

I only noticed the gyroscopic effect for the first few months I had my 88 BMW R100GS, my first crank-oriented twin. Never noticed it on the nearly twice as powerful R11S, and have never noticed it except revving at stoplights on the Goose. Having said that, I had to have a friend ride mine back from the shop onetime as I was recovering from ramming a deer with the R11S. He had a Duc and immediately noticed the gyroscopic effect and complained loud and long about it. After recovering fully, I wanted to see if I would notice it. I didn't. So I think I tend to compensate for it and just never really notice it.

[hoytstaab]

About 2 years after riding the V11 Sport, I test rode a Buell Firebolt. I liked it but not nearly as much as my Guzzi. The Firebolt seemed very difficult to flick side-to-side as I flopped it back and forth going down a straight road, which was a surprise. There may be other factors at play, but I think the longitudinal crank is a major factor in turning in and allowing fun lean angles. You don't need to blast through every turn to have loads of fun because the lean angles on the Guzzi are so much fun.

 

Motorcyclist magazine had an interesting article by Alan Cathcart on the Moto Csysz. The gyroscopic forces were briefly discussed as it relates to turning. It is a good read.

 

I could be wrong on this point, but isn't engine flywheel weight another contributor?....in the case of the Buell with the "sideways" crank, there is more inertia spinning forward (which wants to stay in that plane) as you try to change direction....

 

so much to learn about so little between 2 wheels.

[Steve G.]

I can't wait for Steve G and Al to answer this one. I'll just keep quiet for now.

72385[/snapback]

No comment? I'm feeling very dizzy thinking about gyroscopic effects going on between my legs, uh, while riding my Guzzi!

Ciao, Steve G.

[Alex-Corsa]

I know that inline 4's create a gyroscopic effect at higher RPMs that makes the bike ............

 

Here I have found some old archieves with some technical stuff about Gyroscopic effects ,vibrations on V twins and,cornering forces.

It might as well be interesting for a short study

It might not stay up for long enough so you might as well get it now.

The_gyroscopic_effects.zip

[Alex-Corsa]

And the rest

Shaking_forces_of_twins.zip

[mike wilson]

I know that inline 4's create a gyroscopic effect at higher RPMs that makes the bike want to stand up straight whilst in mid-corner.

 

72375[/snapback]

 

That's precession. If you hold a bicycle wheel by the axle in both hands and spin it, try turning it one way and the other. You will find that there is a force making the top of the wheel want to fall over. Can't remember offhand but, if you turn the wheel left, the top will try to force itself one way and the other way when you turn it to the right.

 

The whole melange of precession, torque effects and other rotational forces as applied to motorcycling handling would create enough discussion to keep this thread going, continuously, for months if not years.

 

You could _try_ reading some text books but you might find that the only way to get rid of the subsequent headache is to run headfirst into a brick wall. Worked for me.

 

mike