Oil Change followed by misfire - WTF?

[Frenchbob]

This thread seems to have caused some vapour after about the same time as leaving a bike to "cool" over a hot engine does! And no-one's asked what sort of oil was used, yet.

 

Seriously, although I suffered no poor running problems, my 2002 Sport did come to me with the fuel lines draped around the cylinder heads! One of the first jobs I did on it was to move them away a little.

[Guest Nogbad]

My 2000 V11 Sport has suffered vapour lock on 2 occasions, both times after crawling through heavy London traffic for over 30 minutes in temperatures over 30°C. Indeed I think I was about to suffer an attack of the "vapours" myself.

 

I doesn't happen often enough to be a worry. If you keep the tank full and don't stop the engine, the thing will continue running even when grossly overheated. The vapour lock and bad running happens when you return to the bike after the engine has been off for 15 to 30 minutes.

 

What I have noticed is that the engine becomes very prone to pinging, and feels rough if it gets too hot. Once out of the traffic and on the open road, after about 15 minutes at reasonable speeds it all returns to normal.

 

The gearbox also becomes notchy and the clutch snatchy, presumably hot thin oil and hot linings respectively.

 

I guess she just gets grouchy in the heat.

[al_roethlisberger]

I guess she just gets grouchy in the heat.

73009[/snapback]

 

 

...yep, it is a passive air-cooled(oil) motor after all. There are limits

 

 

Although when this topic(VL) was more in "fashion"(mostly due to yours truly grousing about it ) .... there was talk of retrofitting the Buell cooling fan, but the part was pricey(> $200 if I recall ). But Buell apparently had similar cooling issues for the rear cylinder what with all that bodywork covering it, etc... so they added an undertank/seat fan to keep it cooler.

 

Although I don't know that anyone here ended up giving that a try, one fella in the "high country"(Colorado??) from the forum did install some weather-resistant fan under his tank to keep the air moving and temps down. I think he kept it simple, not using any sort of thermal doo-dad-switch, and just manually flicked it on when the conditions were just right to overheat. I don't remember who that was, but I do recall that high altitude and Summer heat were causing him to run into this problem almost daily, so he had to come up with some workable solution.

 

al

[Steve G.]

My 2000 V11 Sport has suffered vapour lock on 2 occasions, both times after crawling through heavy London traffic for over 30 minutes in temperatures over 30°C. Indeed I think I was about to suffer an attack of the "vapours" myself.

 

I doesn't happen often enough to be a worry. If you keep the tank full and don't stop the engine, the thing will continue running even when grossly overheated. The vapour lock and bad running happens when you return to the bike after the engine has been off for 15 to 30 minutes.

 

What I have noticed is that the engine becomes very prone to pinging, and feels rough if it gets too hot. Once out of the traffic and on the open road, after about 15 minutes at reasonable speeds it all returns to normal.

 

The gearbox also becomes notchy and the clutch snatchy, presumably hot thin oil and hot linings respectively.

 

I guess she just gets grouchy in the heat.

73009[/snapback]

The symptoms you talk about are exactly what used to happen to my bike. The first time it happened was during the late summer in Reno, Nevada, after parking my bike at Harra's after 20 minutes of stop&go to get there. I knew it was heat related [being in Reno in summer], but then it happened once more at home on a warm day after 40 minutes parking at a winery. The injectors were indeed coolish at that time, but the underside and lines were quite warm, hot even. It was then I knew it was not a classic case of carb/injector heat related vapour lock. The fuel lines close proximity to the cylinders was the main problem. After re-routing, there has been no issues, even after 155 F in GarberVille, Ca. this summer.

Ciao, Steve G.

[Steve G.]

Steve, I didn't realize that an opinion that differed with yours would provoke offense.  I'm truly sorry if I offended you.  That was not my intent.  Of course you could be right about heat-caused symptoms.  It's a little difficult to diagnose things over a Forum post, and you have to make assumptions, or there's little potential of finding a workable solution.  Wouldn't you agree?  I was just offering one possibility.  Troubleshooting is a game of probabilities.  Is there no room here for different points of view when trying to help out a guy with a problem without offense being taken?

 

Common sense and a fairly thorough understanding of basic engine operation IMHO   would tell me the following:

 

1. I also prefer to have my engine at full operating temp prior to an oil change.  By the time I've allowed the old oil to stop dripping, pre-filled the new and changed out the old filter, and refilled and checked the level, as Corey had indicated, my engine is cool enough to the touch that I can comfortably hold my hand on any part of the cylinder heads - or anywhere else on or around the engine - with no problem.  By this time, the fuel lines and TBs are relatively cool to the touch.  Common sense tells me that at this point, neither the fuel pump nor any part of the fuel delivery plumbing have anywhere near enough heat to vaporize fuel.  Even if you have a bike that's already known to be prone to heat-soak induced VL, AND you change your oil and filter immediately after shutting down after a long hard run (again - waiting for the old oil to stop dripping!) - if you did it racing against the clock, it might be possible to do it fast enough to still have enough heat somewhere in the fuel system for vapor lock to occur, but common sense and experience tell me it's exactly as I said in my post - highly unlikely.

 

2.  My Guzzi and my friend's LeMans have both very occasionally and very briefly coughed back through the TBs for unknown (not very important, IMHO) reasons starting up from cold, obviously unrelated to vapor lock.  As in Corey's case, neither bike has ever had any non-start or lean-condition symptoms that would be consistent with vapor lock, in every conceivable heat-soak condition - even on 100F+ days.  Common  sense tells me that the cough-back (backfire, if you will) that blew off my pal's intake boot and caused symptoms identical to what Corey described might have happened to him, too. 

 

3.  I'm fully aware that many Guzzi models have experienced chronic vapor lock symptoms.  Corey indicated he's never experienced it before.  I've got 27K miles without any such symptoms and 2 fellow V11 owners I know (also with pre-'02 V11 Guzzi's) have also never experienced it.  Common sense tells me that the liklihood of it suddenly appearing for the first time on a relatively "cooler" winter day, even where he lives, would be very low - especially after cooling down for the time it takes to do an oil change - though it's certainly not impossible!!

 

Common sense also tells me that when an intake boot pops off from an engine cough, continuing to try to start it (as happened to my pal), the cause of the cough-back is now irrelevant, because now the cause of the lean symptoms and non-start condition is a blown-off intake boot!  Experience tells me that this happens with lots of bikes (BTDT).  Common sense tells me that it's well worth checking when the symptoms line up.  It's easy enough to do...

 

As far as common sense and basic understanding of engine operation making a person read a backfire as a symptom of an outstanding problem, I would have to disagree here.  I've owned a dozen bikes of all sizes and configurations, I've partially or completely rebuilt many of 'em, and I've tuned 'em all myself.  I believe that at some point, very likely every one of the four-stroke bikes coughed-back, even while in a high state of tune.  Unless you consider the inherent design of many engines itself "problematic" enough to allow a very occasional hiccup, I reckon common sense would tell you NOT to make an assumption that there's necessarily an "outstanding problem" every time it happens.

 

Common sense also tells me that Guzzi's - like any IC engine, can occasionally seem to defy common sense.

 

BAA TJM & YMMV

72986[/snapback]

Sighhhh!!

[bigbikerrick]

I started with one of the "factory" stands that I got from Mike Haven at MPH. It's one of those units that you slide under the bike from the rear and it levers the rear end of the bike up in the air, using the two nuts on the hambone footrest plate as supports. I use it when I need to be able to rotate or remove the rear wheel.

 

I later bought one of the those LA Sport Chocks (http://www.baxleycompanies.com/Sportchock.html) which I now use routinely. It's great; you just roll the bike onto the stand and that's it. The bike is upright, the rear wheel is not off the ground, but for oil changes, other maintenance and just parking the bike in the garage (or in the bed of a truck) it's great.

 

I apologize since this information may not help you much with modifying the unit you now have, but I thought I'd pass along my experience with the two stands I have now.

72991[/snapback]

Corey, what brand of head guards are those on your rosso? They look trick, I would like to put a set of those on my V 11.

[CoreyL]

Corey, what brand of head guards are those on your rosso? They look trick, I would like to put a set of those on my V 11.

73059[/snapback]

 

 

I got the headguards from Sport Cycle Pacific (see: http://www.sportcyclepacific.com/featureditems.htm).

 

BTW, back to the original vapor lock problem, when I went to inspect my fuel lines on the bike, the low pressure feed line to the fuel pump was within 0.25 inch of the left cylinder barrel. I relocated it to a couple of inches away. I think I'll also put some Thermo Tec aluminized heat barrier between the pump/fuel line and cylinder. Couldn't hurt...

[bigbikerrick]

I got the headguards from Sport Cycle Pacific (see: http://www.sportcyclepacific.com/featureditems.htm).

 

BTW, back to the original vapor lock problem, when I went to inspect my fuel lines on the bike, the low pressure feed line to the fuel pump was within 0.25 inch of the left cylinder barrel. I relocated it to a couple of inches away. I think I'll also put some Thermo Tec aluminized heat barrier between the pump/fuel line and cylinder. Couldn't hurt...

73130[/snapback]

Thanks for the link, do those headguards stick out further than the stockers? I am trying to decide between those and the guzzitech ones. the black ones sure are prettier!

[g.forrest]

done it . sp

Thanks for the link, do those headguards stick out further than the stockers? I am trying to decide between those and the guzzitech ones. the black ones sure are prettier!

73184[/snapback]

[CoreyL]

Thanks for the link, do those headguards stick out further than the stockers? I am trying to decide between those and the guzzitech ones. the black ones sure are prettier!

73184[/snapback]

 

I don't think they stick out much farther than the stock ones (I'd have to dig out my stock ones and measure them to be sure). Both guards just stick out enough to somewhat protect the spark plug if the bike goes over. You might want to put the question to the Sport Cycle Pacific people to confirm dimensions...