Mike Stewart Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Ok, I have been having a problem with my 5 speed trans in my Ghezzi-Brian. Well, maybe it is not a problem, maybe it is normal. My problem is a false neutral going from 3rd to 4th. A dealer has already done the shimming fix and the problem is still there. I do not usually hit the false neutral around town, only when I am reving the snot out of the bike. I guess, that is worst, because the revs really scream when it happens. If I take my time and do a very slllooow shift, it seems to go into 4th, but other wise, it will hit a false neutral. I hear Dynotec drills out a shaft to add a bolt somewhere to keep the gears tightly together. Any ideas if this is the way to go, or are there other solutions. I have also heard that going with a lighter flywheel makes the transmission shift better, is this true? The Ghezzi-Brian uses the EV motor which has an anchor of a flywheel. So if anyone has any solutions, please help! Need to know, Mike
macguzzi Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Ok, I have been having a problem with my 5 speed trans in my Ghezzi-Brian. Well, maybe it is not a problem, maybe it is normal. My problem is a false neutral going from 3rd to 4th. A dealer has already done the shimming fix and the problem is still there. I do not usually hit the false neutral around town, only when I am reving the snot out of the bike. I guess, that is worst, because the revs really scream when it happens. If I take my time and do a very slllooow shift, it seems to go into 4th, but other wise, it will hit a false neutral. I hear Dynotec drills out a shaft to add a bolt somewhere to keep the gears tightly together. Any ideas if this is the way to go, or are there other solutions. I have also heard that going with a lighter flywheel makes the transmission shift better, is this true? The Ghezzi-Brian uses the EV motor which has an anchor of a flywheel. So if anyone has any solutions, please help! Need to know, Mike 74285[/snapback] Flywheel will help Guzzi have always been OTT on flywheels. Yesterday I was weighing various flywheels in my garage surprising how much they differ. The box is a slow change it's not a Jap sports bike its an old tractor tarted up.
Paul Minnaert Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Mike, it's hard to tell from a distance what is normal. I think that you have a sport 1100i engine, with it's flywheel. So yes the 5 speed is a slow shifter. What I know is that Dynotec, if they have the budget, change a lot in the gearbox. Parts from different years of guzzi boxes are mixed and matched, to give the right cocktail. I have driven( one time) a daytona with 5 speed dynotec box, that was very smooth. Miles away from my original.
Pierre Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Ok, I have been having a problem with my 5 speed trans in my Ghezzi-Brian. Well, maybe it is not a problem, maybe it is normal. My problem is a false neutral going from 3rd to 4th. ... 74285[/snapback] Mike, I think the stateside "guru" on 5 speeds is Charley Cole. He's a long time guzzi racer, and outside of "Mandello Luigi" himself he's probably seen the inside of more 5 speeds than any one. He has all of Manfred's (Raceco) "set up" tools as well as factory tools. His prices for a full R&R are unbelievably reasonable. The side (primary) benefit is you get to talk with one of the true "Characters" of US Guzzi lore. Check out his web site, and give him a call if you're so inclined. He may be able to walk you through the problem by phone. If not, I've done business with him and his turn around time is under a week. He stocks a full supply of 5 speed parts. It is his only businesss - outside of racing vintage Guzzis. http://www.zydecoracing.com/page/page/2768234.htm Pierre
jrt Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 What Pierre said- Also, you could call Mark Ethridge at Moto Guzzi Classics in Long Beach. He's done more than a few transmissions, albiet he is geared (ha ha) toward the Eldos. Charley is probably your best bet, though.
luhbo Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 All my personal experience says that this is a typical problem of proper shimming. Guzziology explains a very easy way to do it yourself, way better then any measuring and stuff! It could also be fact that the related claws are already worn out, but then the gear would also have a tendency to jump out. Hubert
Mike Stewart Posted January 13, 2006 Author Posted January 13, 2006 I can live with the long throw shifting, clunky, slow shifting 5spd. I should of been more exact on the problem I want to fix. When shifting at red line in 3rd gear, I have to put my foot under the shift lever and pull in the clutch, pull up on the shift lever and keep pressure on it while I slowly release the clutch (all while praying it goes in). Hopefully, I do not get the false neutral this way (kind of embarrassing hearing the engine scream at the top of its lungs). I have hit a false neutral going down the front straight while going into 4th and when this happens, the 1st turn is coming up fast. No engine braking and not knowing if I should try a down shift which could mean going into 2nd gear which would mean rear wheel lockup. Going around a turn with out engine power makes the outside of the turn like a magnet and I am running out of underwear! All I want is to be able to hit 4th gear with out all the other worries or extra work which could be a hazzard to my health (again) The updated shift drum has also been installed, this makes the shifter throw shorter. I would think if the throw is shorter, then it would also take more effort to make the shift. Less mechanical advantage. I don't know if this could be part of my problem or not. Thanks again, Mike Mike, it's hard to tell from a distance what is normal. I think that you have a sport 1100i engine, with it's flywheel. So yes the 5 speed is a slow shifter. What I know is that Dynotec, if they have the budget, change a lot in the gearbox. Parts from different years of guzzi boxes are mixed and matched, to give the right cocktail. I have driven( one time) a daytona with 5 speed dynotec box, that was very smooth. Miles away from my original. 74298[/snapback]
Mike Stewart Posted January 13, 2006 Author Posted January 13, 2006 Thanks Pierre, I have seen his name on ebay, he is selling many Raceco racing parts at this moment. I will email him about my problem. Many thanks, Mike Mike, I think the stateside "guru" on 5 speeds is Charley Cole. He's a long time guzzi racer, and outside of "Mandello Luigi" himself he's probably seen the inside of more 5 speeds than any one. He has all of Manfred's (Raceco) "set up" tools as well as factory tools. His prices for a full R&R are unbelievably reasonable. The side (primary) benefit is you get to talk with one of the true "Characters" of US Guzzi lore. Check out his web site, and give him a call if you're so inclined. He may be able to walk you through the problem by phone. If not, I've done business with him and his turn around time is under a week. He stocks a full supply of 5 speed parts. It is his only businesss - outside of racing vintage Guzzis. http://www.zydecoracing.com/page/page/2768234.htm Pierre 74304[/snapback]
Mike Stewart Posted January 13, 2006 Author Posted January 13, 2006 Hubert, The work on the bike (shimming and shift drum) was done at a dealer in Southern California, I have heard that their work may not be up to par. I just wanted to check out my options or thoughts before I tear into it. I hate going into the unknown with out any ideas on what the problem could be. I hope there aren't any worn claws, that would start to be expensive. Mike All my personal experience says that this is a typical problem of proper shimming. Guzziology explains a very easy way to do it yourself, way better then any measuring and stuff! It could also be fact that the related claws are already worn out, but then the gear would also have a tendency to jump out. Hubert 74307[/snapback]
luhbo Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 I can live with the long throw shifting, clunky, slow shifting 5spd. I should of been more exact on the problem I want to fix. When shifting at red line in 3rd gear, I have to put my foot under the shift lever and pull in the clutch, pull up on the shift lever and keep pressure on it while I slowly release the clutch (all while praying it goes in). Hopefully, I do not ... 74309[/snapback] Stop riding it and open your box! What you describe is exactly what I once had. A lifetime experience, having caused it all myself! Opened a perfect gearbox just because it was winter '83, the box was out and I was curious. Of course I missmatched the shims (three in front and three at the end seemed reasonable). The result was boiling oil, blue gears (the groove) and lots of silly speech. A well and especially tight shimmed 5-speed box is a dream and would suite the V11, too! Hubert
bigbikerrick Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Mike, I think the stateside "guru" on 5 speeds is Charley Cole. He's a long time guzzi racer, and outside of "Mandello Luigi" himself he's probably seen the inside of more 5 speeds than any one. He has all of Manfred's (Raceco) "set up" tools as well as factory tools. His prices for a full R&R are unbelievably reasonable. The side (primary) benefit is you get to talk with one of the true "Characters" of US Guzzi lore. Check out his web site, and give him a call if you're so inclined. He may be able to walk you through the problem by phone. If not, I've done business with him and his turn around time is under a week. He stocks a full supply of 5 speed parts. It is his only businesss - outside of racing vintage Guzzis. http://www.zydecoracing.com/page/page/2768234.htm Pierre 74304[/snapback] Do you know if charlie cole will work on our six speed boxes also?
Pierre Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Do you know if charlie cole will work on our six speed boxes also? 74336[/snapback] That I don't know. Never talked to him about one as I don't own any of that "new fangled" stuff.
Mike Stewart Posted January 14, 2006 Author Posted January 14, 2006 So, I emailed Charley and he replied that my problem is most likely a shimming issue. There could also be some damage caused by the incorrect shimming to the gears. He only charges $200. to disassemble the trans completely, inspect all the shafts and gears, replace the shifter spring and a few other parts that could cause trouble and reshim the trans correctly. Sounds like a bargain! I would not even know where to purchase the shims or the dealer would have to order them Humm, I am thinking of trying my V11 Sport engine in the Ghezzi when it goes back together. Mike
pete roper Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 I tried to reply to this earlier but the connection went down. Firstly, I'd tryadjusting the shifter pawl adjuster so you get slightly more *up* and a bit less *down* on the lever. Then it will probably be one of two other things. Either poor shimming, and in that case I suggest that you have a look at my shimming instructions on either Guzzitech or Guzzitekdk which are, with all due respect to Dave Richardson, far more detailed and easier to understand and give a better result. Or Secondly, the nut on the front of the output shaft may be coming undone. This results in a poor shift between 3rd and 4th and 2nd and 3rd and the end result is that either the nut bores it's way into the bell housing and you notice the leak OR worse still the gears will double engage and the box will blow up. Sorry, but I think you should get the box out and send it to Charlie. Shims? You can get 'em anywhere, but somebody who cares is slightly harder to find!!!!! Pete
docc Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 , but somebody who cares is slightly harder to find!!!!! Pete 74393[/snapback] isn't this one one the great truths of our day? Makes me appreciate the people here on this forum.
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