"old" V11 sport frame

[Guest Michel Terheggen]

We all know the V11 Le Mans and the Scura have a better, stiffer frame when compared with the first generation V11 sport. Who has good tips on improving the high speed handling of the "old" V11 sport?

[Guest Jaap]

Change from a 170 to a 160 rear tyre. I've heard that would help.

I don't know if the extra subframes on the Le Mans will fit on the V11 Sport. You have to ask your dealer.

[Guest Carl Allison]

There is a good bit of information available at http://www.guzzitech.com/ concerning various V11 Sport handling and maintenance tips. Look under "Suspension Related". If you're looking for the wiring schematic in color (as well as for other Guzzi's), you can look at http://home.pacbell.net/guzzi007/sportissimo.html.

 

 

Carl Allison

Modesto, California

01 V11 Sport TT

97 MG Sport 1100i "Bright Red Italian Bugswatter"

97 MG California 1100i

MGNOC 17546

http://home.pacbell.net/guzzi007/sportissimo.html

[Guest Guest]

Hi you all and compliments to Jaap for the site,

I have a Rosso M wich has the same "old" V11 spinframe. As everyone I have experienced problems as wobbling and swaying at high speed that made me really uncomfortable with the bike, and the use of the steering damper only worsened the problem. I have now reached a good steadyness and reliability also on speedy turns changing the rear rim that is 4.5" large with the 5.5" rim, using the same 170" tyre. There is no need to change the pivot and there is enough room between the ends of the rear fork.

[Guest Beniamino Vigo]

Hi you all and compliments to Jaap for the site,

I have a Rosso M wich has the same "old" V11 spinframe. As everyone I have experienced problems as wobbling and swaying at high speed that made me really uncomfortable with the bike, and the use of the steering damper only worsened the problem. I have now reached a good steadyness and reliability also on speedy turns changing the rear rim that is 4.5" large with the 5.5" rim, using the same 170" tyre. There is no need to change the pivot and there is enough room between the ends of the rear fork.

 

Beniamino Vigo

Sorry, just forgotten the signature.

[Guest John - Oregon]

How fast do you have to go to have this wobbling problem? I rarely exceed 100 mph, but I've never noticed this at all on my '01 V11S and I ride the bike hard, just not really fast.

 

Maybe the problems people are experiencing are due to suspension set up. At the rear, I've cranked in a bunch more rear spring preload, 2 or 3 clicks from min on compression, and nearly max on rebound (Sachs shock).

 

Up front, the Steering damper is set at min, compression at a few clicks less than stock, and rebound 3 clicks from max. It gives a nice compliant ride and still doesn't bounce around during agressive cornering.

 

I also keep a very light touch on the grips, only resting my hands on them, not grabbing on, and I keep my elbows bent. This is important on unfaired bikes to prevent unwanted inputs from wind buffetting.

[Guest Beniamino Vigo]

I have experienced problems of two kinds: swaying at high speed (around 200 Km/h on tacho) on straight road, and wobbling on speed cornering on highways. The second caused the bike to enlarge the trajectory, and happened at speed lower than 150 Km/h, maybe 130 Km/h. I think it depends on the wheelbase lenght, that is lower on this model than on the other products: it allows quick cornering but has an obvious backside.

I aggree with you on the suspension setting, but it only solves the first problem, on straight road. I didn't believe that changing the rim would have been so conclusive. It's a matter of tyre and rim matching, and probably the 170 tyre is too large for the standard rim.

I have to say that usually I don't reach such a speed as referred above, I've just tested the bike once after the first 1500 Km coupon, just to see what the bike can do, but high cornering is a different matter and you know how much it is enjoying.

[DeBenGuzzi]

I haven't noticed any wobbles in my ride, and what happened to all these ppl

[Guest ratchethack]

We all know the V11 Le Mans and the Scura have a better, stiffer frame when compared with the first generation V11 sport.  Who has good tips on improving the high speed handling of the "old" V11 sport?

12[/snapback]

As Jaap mentioned, going to a 160 rear tire is essential for the 4.5" rear wheel, IMHO. Beyond that, following the essentials of proper set-up of the suspension of any motorcycle will cure the worst of any handling problem and generally transforms any "short frame" Sport into a beautifully handling, rock-stable delight at any speed it's capable of (considering it's weight and [ahem] other fundamental drawbacks, that is. -- It ain't no Spring Chicken Sportbike!):

 

1. Install properly matched spring rates to the load.

 

2. Learn and UNDERSTAND what unladen and laden sag ranges must be. Ensure that BOTH laden AND unladen sag settings are within proper ranges by adjusting preload.

 

3. Dial in more steering damper above 80 mph.

 

FACT: If you don't start with #1, give up any hope of handling the way it was designed to handle.

 

. . . . . . caused the bike to enlarge the trajectory. . . .

YIKES! I sincerely hope that there's only a small semantic problem here, but it seems to me that if you've "enlarged the trajectory", this sounds suspiciously like a "high side" -- and at least at higher speeds, unless you stop enlarging it, you soon won't have many more opportunities to ride.

 

it allows quick cornering but has an obvious backside. 

There is no "obvious backside" to the frame geometry of the "short frame" Sports. Despite persistent "old wive's tales" about the "short frame" Sports, while the steering-head angle is steeper than the LM variants, by modern HyperBike standards, it's nowhere near as steep as many, it's still a quite "lazy" steering chassis, and the wheelbase is not by any means "short" by modern Sportbike standards.

[BrianG]

As Jaap mentioned, going to a 160 rear tire is essential for the 4.5" rear wheel, IMHO.  Beyond that, following the essentials of proper set-up of the suspension of any motorcycle will cure the worst of any handling problem and generally transforms any "short frame" Sport into a beautifully handling, rock-stable delight at any speed it's capable of (considering it's weight and [ahem] other fundamental drawbacks, that is. -- It ain't no Spring Chicken Sportbike!):

 

1.  Install properly matched spring rates to the load.

 

2.  Learn and UNDERSTAND what unladen and laden sag ranges must be.  Ensure that BOTH laden AND unladen sag settings are within proper ranges by adjusting preload.

 

3.  Dial in more steering damper above 80 mph.

 

FACT: If you don't start with #1, give up any hope of handling the way it was designed to handle. 

94112[/snapback]

 

Nice to see that you got this down!! And you got it perfect, IMHO!

 

The V-11 is a heavy bike and seems to suffer from ill-advised factory springing, if you subscribe to the 15%/30% static/laden sag theory.

 

Also, try setting compression damping to "near zero" and rebound damping at "factory soft". Add rebound damping "to taste" as you ride. You'll need little compression damping off the track if the springing is right, and adding it only contributes to a feeling of harshness.

 

I'd add......... Set the steering head bearing preload to 10-15 lb on good, well lubed bearings. You'll likely find the steering damper less necessary.

[Paul Minnaert]

or something is going wrong with the board, or someone digs up a real old tread. "Jun 24 2002, 03:20 AM"

[dlaing]

Also, try setting compression damping to "near zero" and rebound damping at "factory soft".  Add rebound damping "to taste" as you ride.  You'll need little compression damping off the track if the springing is right, and adding it only contributes to a feeling of harshness.

94121[/snapback]

Nice to see Ratchet being so concise

...and your comments about damping are exactly what worked for me with the Marz and Sachs.

I think alot of people are afraid to set the compression damping to minimum (I set to one click from minimum). It most definitely took away some of the harshness.

[mike wilson]

QUOTE(Beniamino Vigo @ Jun 25 2002, 03:00 PM)

. . . . . . caused the bike to enlarge the trajectory. . . .

 

YIKES! I sincerely hope that there's only a small semantic problem here, but it seems to me that if you've "enlarged the trajectory", this sounds suspiciously like a "high side" -- and at least at higher speeds, unless you stop enlarging it, you soon won't have many more opportunities to ride.

[unquote ratchet]

 

Unless you are joking....I take that to mean understeer. The trajectory of the curve got larger.

 

m

[Guest ratchethack]

Unless you are joking....I take that to mean understeer.  The trajectory of the curve got larger.

No joke. I was sincerely "thrown" (so to speak! ) by the terminology.

 

AFAIK, understeer is understeer, AKA "push". . . . .

 

Apologies as necessary for MY ignorance, then. . . . . .

[guido]

I, for one, think there are problems with the old frame. And looking at the developments at Moto Guzzi, so do they. The main weaknesses apart from the suspension and the tyres, imho has to do with the standard Mazzochi front forks, the steering damper, the front fork angle and the rear swingarm.

The suspension and tyre issue has been dealt with, I just seem to think the bike also needs really hard pumped tyres.

The front fork, or similar, are also used on some Ducatis, and I have a test report Feb 2006, I think, where the tester almost lost it to a tank slapper on a Monster, he thought the front fork was the reason. No steering damper on that bike. The up-specced V11 came with Oehlins, maybe for good reason.

I think the steering damper on the early V11 sports are essential, under certain conditions, and needs to be cranked up at all times.

The steering geometry, although not radical, is on the borderline for the bike. There is no doubt that under certain conditions, how rare they might be, the bike can be dangerous. Otherwise I see no reason why Moto Guzzi would change it on the later models. Then there is the rear swingarm, where later machines have a stiffener welded on, and maybe, if I remember correctly a change in length?

Lastly there is at least one change to the mounting of the engine+tranny on the later machines, whether or not it affects handling is maybe a moot point, but there seems to be some hard load on parts of the engine/tranny, and cracks are not unheard of. In itself that points to movement in the frame.

Of all above, the only one not "easily" changed is the front geometry. But with careful choice of tyres, tyre pressure, steering and suspension set-up, I think you can live with that.

Again, nothing of this set up, on the early or later V11s. is transferred to the newer MG models. Brand new frames for both the Griso and the Breva, which means a lifespan of less than 10 years for the spine, and the Tonti is still going almost 40 years later!! You bet there is a reason.

 

I crashed my bike, early green/red unit, and the only reason that I can come up with at the moment, was bad road surface, rippled and uneven combined with, possibly, a loose steering damper. (Note I politely avoid mentioning my riding skills so let's not go there )

I have just now got the bike back, together with an EV, another, later V11 plus a Breva 1100. I still like the V11 sport, I actually think it is a classic in the coming, and I am going to rebuild it, but this is the only bike I have which I will never again ride without full leathers, even in 40 degrees of heat and only going down to the corner shop!

Of all these units, including my earlier Tonti machines, ( I don't know the later V11 Sport yet), the Breva is by far the easiest bike to handle. It inspires a confidence on the straight and especially in corners that I never had with the V11, which always wobbled in the curves, unless you gave it power through. The Breva is just so much more relaxed, well it is a hugely improved bike, simply put!. There are no vibrations to speak off, and for the first time, you can actually use your mirrors to identify whats behind you. All my other Guzzis will only show you that something is there but it is not clear what!!.

I think the Breva is a huge step forward and it is an absolute delight!!

.

As a last issue. Bad handling Moto Guzzis do exist. They are maybe rare, and not as badly behaved as others, but when they did or do occur, they are so much more of a surprise! However, if you read about the bikes sold to the police in America, there are well documented cases of individual bikes which would cause tank slappers and all other sorts of problems, without anybody being able to pinpoint exact causes. The Berliner corporation would simply send the affected bikes back. In the beginning MG tried to locate the reasons for the problems, and would test the bikes as they were returned, but they had a factory rider killed doing this, so later the bikes were simply scrapped and parts re-used when possible.

So when we have high praise on one hand and doubt on the other, from owners of similar bikes, there could well be differences, and everybodys points could be valid. In the case of an early V11, lovely bike as it is, check, adjust and check again is all I can advice the safety margins are simply not so great on this bike, and yes, - you should always wear leathers, I know, but on the early V11 no exceptions -, for whatever reason - never, ever!

 

Well. then this is off the chest. In to get a beer, football on TV,what a cracker of a game yesterday.

OH, life is SWEET!!!