"old" V11 sport frame

[Guest ratchethack]

I hardly see suspension modification in the same terms as replacing a bald tyre. Replacing a buggered shock, yes. Modifying from good condition stock, no.

I think you'll find every manual that properly covers it, every book on motorcycle suspension, and every suspension specialist who's been around for awhile would agree that matching spring rate to load isn't considered a "modification". It's as basic to getting a motorcycle (especially a "sporting" motorcycle) to fit the rider as getting a new pair of pants hemmed to length. If they fit right off the rack -- well, y'er in luck. In my case, at 50-60 lbs. overweight for the stock springs at 190 lbs. riding weight, I "tailored" it properly and the difference was night & day. The haberdasher's equivalent of NOT doing it in my case would be wearing pants that're 4" too long and 4" too generous in the waist.

 

Again, for corroboration, see link here:

 

http://www.strappe.com/suspension.html

[dlaing]

I think you'll find every manual that properly covers it, every book on motorcycle suspension, and every suspension specialist who's been around for awhile would agree that matching spring rate to load isn't considered a "modification". It's as basic to getting a motorcycle (especially a "sporting" motorcycle) to fit the rider as getting a new pair of pants hemmed to length. If they fit right off the rack -- well, y'er in luck. In my case, at 50-60 lbs. overweight for the stock springs at 190 lbs. riding weight, I "tailored" it properly and the difference was night & day. The haberdasher's equivalent of NOT doing it in my case would be wearing pants that're 5" too long and 4" too generous in the waist.

 

Again, for corroboration, see link here:

 

http://www.strappe.com/suspension.html

I am with Ratchet.

The stock springs are about right for Al Pacino's weight while many of us are in the Marlon Brando's fuller years weight category.

Even if you are an Al Pacino, adjusting the fork spring spacers and the rear preload will maximize predictable road behavior.

However if you grew up riding Harley Hard tails and you get a kick out of being jarred by bottoming suspension and you have no appreciation for balanced suspension, more power to you, just leave it stock.

 

Today I visited San Diego's first motorcycle superstore, Fun Bike Center.

It gave me an opportunity to sit on a few bikes and bounce the suspension.

Geeze, there is a wide variety of factory springing out there.

Everything I tried seemed to have a lot of stiction and lousy damping, but maybe that was because it needed breaking in and adjustment.

The SV650 seemed to be sprung even softer than a stock V11S, while the new Ninja 650 twin felt nice and firm...both had nice ergonomics, but they both felt soooo cheap.

The Japanese bikes do seem to reserve the quality build for 150+MPH bikes...there are probably exceptions, like maybe the Vstrohm.

[Guest Nogbad]

The haberdasher's equivalent of NOT doing it in my case would be wearing pants that're 4" too long and 4" too generous in the waist.

 

Again, for corroboration, see link here:

 

http://www.strappe.com/suspension.html

 

OK the analogy is a good one, but in my case the legs are only an inch or so too long and the waist I can just about get into. For sporty riding I just put on my other pair!

[g.forrest]

OK from my experience adjustments made at regular riding and to weight factors are out the window at speeds of 130 k plus riding. adjusted for compfort is to soft and wobbly for fanging speeds. bar pre load.

[luhbo]

C'mon guys, your discusson is useless! Nobody denies that tuning your bike makes it perform better. Only the owner can make the finetuning so that it fits his personal wishes.

 

I'm just against such rubish that only the done tuning saved somebody's life. You can't say that. That's only what some of you may believe. You cannot proofe this, so don't spread it publically. You especially can't say that a standard V11 would risk it's owner's life.

 

That's the only thing I was complaining about.

 

I once knew someone (haven't seen him for years now) who started on a 08/15 Jap thing and after that bought a Pantah 750. After three weeks or so he smashed it into the landscape. His "excuse" then was that the bike was just too good! On his Yamaha he could feel when he reached the edge, the Ducati instead didn't warn him. You see, people always are looking for excuses after they failed, also when it just happened because of unadequate riding.

 

Hubert

[Guest Nogbad]

 

Hubert is right. You should ride within the limitations of the machine. If anyone crashes a standard V11, it is because the ride was bodged and not the bike.

[Guest ratchethack]

I'm just against such rubish that only the done tuning saved somebody's life. You can't say that. That's only what some of you may believe. You cannot proofe this, so don't spread it publically. You especially can't say that a standard V11 would risk it's owner's life.

Say Hubert. Let's take a hypothetical here.

 

I don't know if you ever ride in the mountains, but I do whenever I can. It's conveniently close. No matter, we'll just take my typical mountain riding scenario as an example that I think everyone can relate to.

 

Let's just say we have pretty demanding terrain here - very steep, with everything from tight, blind, off-camber hairpins, to fast sweepers. There are usually lots of hazards such as sand, "marbles", chuck-holes, tar snakes, rippled and crumbling surfaces, large and small rocks out on the road, and water runoff that are often blind and come out from around large granite boulders. In many light conditions, many obstacles only appear very suddenly in front of you out of the shadows. There are sharp jagged rocks at the bottom of steep drop-offs of hundreds of feet all around, and there are no guard rails. Oh yeah - On top of this, let's throw in a wide variety of beasts and fowl, both large and small, which can appear in front of you lots faster than you can back off the throttle. People die and are severely injured on motorcycles here on a regular basis every weekend day, all summer long. Many kinds of people crash here. A few of the ones who've died that I know of had reputations as top riders.

 

Now let's say you had two identical motorcycles to choose from to spend a day riding the kinds of mountain roads I've described above.

 

The first motorcycle has been set up properly for you -- that is, it's spring rates have been correctly matched to your riding weight, the laden and unladen sag settings are perfectly dialed-in for your weight and riding style, the forks have been raised to give the chassis perfectly neutral handling the way you like to ride demanding roads, and the compression, rebound settings and steering damper are all adjusted to suit a properly set-up chassis for you on this terrain - just the way you know by long experience that you like it the best.

 

The other motorcycle, - again, identical to the first - is known to have springs front and rear that are too low rated for your weight by anywhere between 30-60%. In addition to this, the sag settings are unknown - that is, you have no idea whatsoever about the way they have been set - or even IF they ever have been set - or to whose specifications.

 

Now then.

 

1. Which of the two motorcycles would you choose for a day of spirited, enjoyable riding in the terrain above?

 

2. Which do you think would provide you the highest probability of personal safety on y'er little ride?

 

Enquiring minds just gotta know. . . . . .

[richard100t]

I think Huberts point Ratchet, is that whichever bike you are going to ride you still must stay within your limits. One bike may give a better ride than the other but its almost never the bikes fault when you hit the pavement. I dont think anyone would dispute that a properly setup will perform better. Its like trying to blame the gun in a shooting.

[Guest ratchethack]

I think Huberts point Ratchet, is that whichever bike you are going to ride you still must stay within your limits.

Speaking for myself, I'm absolutely and directly limited in terms of both performance and safety unless and until my bike's chassis is correctly set up. I suspect you'll find this is the view of reputable suspension tuners everywhere.

 

I'd never consider limiting myself where I ride by neglect of suspension/chassis setup, but of course others may have an entirely different perspective.

 

. . . . its almost never the bikes fault when you hit the pavement. . . . . Its like trying to blame the gun in a shooting.

Well, if you pogo wide out of a sharp 2nd gear curve over a chuckhole and take 200 foot flyer into manzanita below because you bottomed out hard and got launched, having neglected to spring y'er suspension and set y'er sags - that's your own fault, alright. A rider ought to know the limitations of his machine, regardless of how well or how poorly it's set up. Those limitations are fairly well restricted by the quality of work that went into (or didn't go into) setting it up.

 

Of course a gun is never to blame in a shooting. I'm a bit of a shooter myself.

 

I wouldn't consider bringing any gun into a competitive shooting situation or into the field hunting knowing that it had never been sighted-in, - especially when the penalty for missing the target altogether was my personal safety or that of others - but that's just me.

 

Just an observation, but I'm starting to get the drift here that a notable few have actually taken positions against properly setting up their suspensions. This is simply amazing to me. May l suggest that those who're doing so don't have a clue about what they're saying.

[luhbo]

Life is more but black and white, and reading is more but inverse Scrabble.

 

Hubert

[dlaing]

You should ride within the limitations of the machine. If anyone crashes a standard V11, it is because the ride was bodged and not the bike.

Yes, you should ride within the limitations of the machine, but the fact is we often ride beyond our abilities.

Better suspension increases the chance of survival.

Today while rounding a turn at about 70% of my capable speed, I ran over a squirrel.

My Ohlins swallowed up the impact like no suspension that I have ever owned.

If I was on an undersprung, poorly damped, bike like my old Honda CT110, I probably would have been lucky to have kept the bike up, even if I was going alot slower.

Later in the day I hit a small pothole in the road while going around a turn at about 80 or 90% of my comfort level....again, the Ohlins sucked it up much better than my UNMODIFIED Marzocchis would have, and I probably would have been pushing just as hard through that turn with Marzocchi.

Good suspension prepares you for the unexpected.

Speed wobble is another thing that can happen unexpectedly.

If I was riding a V11S with an inch of sag in the front, fork tubes in factory position, and 3 inches of sag in the rear, riding within the limits of the bike would probably mean not exceeding 70MPH on straights and obeying all the yellow warning signs with recommended speed limits..

If that is good enough for you, fine. It is your choice.

But proper suspension tuning costs less than a pair of slip-on mufflers and it will usually make a bike so much better that one would never think of going back to stock.

[dlaing]

Nog,

You may wish to take care of the Buell suspension, especially if you are heavy set.

This is just from some the first google search I could find, but it seems to be evidence that your bike may be as softly sprung as the V11.

Of course I have no knowledge of the guys credibility and he is talking racing, not sport touring.

Several ways to prep the bike depending on how much you want to spend, your riding level/expectations, etc-

 

For me- stock 03 XB9R with factory racing exhaust and ecm, XB12R airbox cover, belly pan, Nissan front brake pads and Michelin slicks. I retained the stock belt drive for now and have just recently installed a Penske rear shock and will have the forks reworked in the next week or so. I weigh 205lbs, so in order to obtain the correct sag numbers we had to max out the preload front and rear. This still left the front a bit soft for my liking, so I'm doing the suspension upgrades. I do think that if you weigh 140 to 160 the stock suspension will do well for awhile, but I highly recommend upgrading the front brake pads.

[Guest Nogbad]

There is a chart of settings vs rider weight in the Buell manual, with the method for adjusting either side for preference, type of road, riding style etc. Seems to work for me. The bikes are both way better than I am anyway.

[dlaing]

There is a chart of settings vs rider weight in the Buell manual, with the method for adjusting either side for preference, type of road, riding style etc. Seems to work for me. The bikes are both way better than I am anyway.

 

Recognizing the chart is the half way point to optimization...You can do it!!!!

EDIT

when you said, "Seems to work for me." did you mean you optimized it already????

[big J]

When I test rode my bike,I didnt think "has the sag been set,what fork oil is in there,is the compression and rebound damping within limits for my weight?"

 

I just got on and went for a spin.Obviously,I didn't go hard,but got a feel for the bike and how she tracked and handled.I suspect most people were the same.You'd hardly bother if you were buying off of a private seller,you'd just get on and go.(mine came from a dealer)She handled very well,felt totally trustworthy and unlikely to bite back. Nice and solid,a description I've heard from many V11 riders.

 

If you've bought a V11 and like to take her out at the weekend,cruising around,not pushing either your or the bikes limits,I'd imagine that you'd feel little or no inclination to change the suspension settings.Why would you? Not everyone wants to tinker with their bikes or push the limits of their performance(or luck). They should not be berated for this.

 

Each to their own.If you want to spend several thousand fitting ex moto-gp suspension,great.If you're happy with what you've got,fine.

 

The most important thing is that you're having fun.Isn't that what it's all about?