DeBenGuzzi Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 So is flashing/burning("chipping") the ECU In anyway better than Just having a correctly mapped PCIII?? I stumbled across a guy that only burns the chips and said I can throw my PCIII away for $500 dyno tuning fee. Maybe if I sell the PCIII for $200 and get it chipped $500 is about the same price as a Full tune on the PCIII I've been qouted at $300. IS this a case of do whatever or is one better than the other?
callison Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 So is flashing/burning("chipping") the ECU In anyway better than Just having a correctly mapped PCIII?? I stumbled across a guy that only burns the chips and said I can throw my PCIII away for $500 dyno tuning fee. Maybe if I sell the PCIII for $200 and get it chipped $500 is about the same price as a Full tune on the PCIII I've been qouted at $300. IS this a case of do whatever or is one better than the other? 74654[/snapback] If you can modify the program in the ECU with the same ease you can the PCIII than the call will be for the setup with the fewest possible points of failure. The additional connectors on the PCIII will be considered addtional possible points of failure and with the larger number of them, the ECU will be the preferred mode. Technically, they could probably be made nearly ideal and very nearly identical giving no practical edge to either. But - you would have to possess the entire programming, testing and tuning process for the ECU just as you would a PCIII. With a multitude of maps readily available for the PCIII, you can experiment without the PCIII tuning session until such time as you feel it may (or may not) be needed. So, for practicality, the PCIII has the edge. For now.
Mike Stewart Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 So what do you do when you change something on the engine, pay another $500 for another flashing? And what can you do if you like say have a ping problem in hot weather with a ECU reflash? With the PC III, you can go into the map and richen up the area that the ping occurs in hot weather and then lean it back out in the cooler weather. Way easier to work with the PCIII, so many maps, easy to tweak with a few key strokes. Mike So is flashing/burning("chipping") the ECU In anyway better than Just having a correctly mapped PCIII?? I stumbled across a guy that only burns the chips and said I can throw my PCIII away for $500 dyno tuning fee. Maybe if I sell the PCIII for $200 and get it chipped $500 is about the same price as a Full tune on the PCIII I've been qouted at $300. IS this a case of do whatever or is one better than the other? 74654[/snapback]
dlaing Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Tuneboy and Direct Link are nearly as practicle as a PCIII. About the only thing they lack is a network of willing Tuning Link Dyno-Tuners, and buttons to push. Tuneboy costs less than a PCIII and has more features so that you can tune it BETTER than a PCIII. With Tune boy you can do almost everything the PCIII can, plus adjust, timing, and temperature and air pressure sensor correction. What is this guy offering to tune it with? What does the $500 include. It probably includes one tune-boy or direct-link key and a few hours on the dyno. If you buy the software, that he uses, you can modify the maps if you change your modifications... or if you find it needs tweaking....but of course your custom tune becomes water under the bridge if you make substantial modifications after the custom tune. But the same can be said of a custom PCIII Tuning-Link Tune. If you decide to modify the bike and want him to adjust it after, I'll bet it will be cheaper than $500, but you should ask him. For about two or three hundred you could get a custom Tuning Link map for your PCIII, and probably be very happy! The choice is yours!
John A Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 That would be Doug Lofgren,I'll bet.I had him tune mine about 5 years ago when I put on Mike Rich dual plugged heads.At that time he used the FIM Ultimap which is flashloaded into the ecu.There is a code that goes with it so after the box is tweaked the first time subsequent tuning is cheaper as you have already paid for the program.I used that because I needed to also adjust the ignition timing and the other programs were not out yet.After 5 years and 60K miles I am still satisfied.If Doug does it, it'll be right but it aint cheep.Keep us posted,John
dlaing Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 If that is Doug Lofgren and ManleyCycles, I think everyone would agree you are in good hands! Everytime I read his tech reports I am impressed: http://www.manleycycle.com/Tech.htm These are three of his most interesting articles: http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/mgv11ex.htm V11Sport http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/more_mg.htm more V11Sport and the benefits of Stucchi X-over http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/chip_talk.htm A/F ratio variations in Ducati 996 The last one exemplifies why the type of tuning that Doug does produces the best result, because he does not rely on set A/F to determine what is right for the bike. Unlike PCIII tuning-link tuners, I'll bet he'll guarantee the bike won't ping when he is done with it.
Guest slowpoke Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 That's who I need to get my bike right!
Alex-Corsa Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Tuneboy and Direct Link are nearly as practicle as a PCIII.About the only thing they lack is a network of willing Tuning Link Dyno-Tuners, and buttons to push. Tuneboy costs less than a PCIII and has more features so that you can tune it BETTER than a PCIII. With Tune boy you can do almost everything the PCIII can, plus adjust, timing, and temperature and air pressure sensor correction. But yet the tuneboy alone is usseles,or ??? It does maps , right?, O.K. then where would these maps will go to? Wouldn't you need way or another the PCIII to stick 'em inside?
antonio carroccio Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Oh yeah Baby ! ! ! Come on.... ECU vs PCIII O yeaaahh, what's the quote? Come on, let's gambling.
dlaing Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 But yet the tuneboy alone is usseles,or ??? It does maps , right?, O.K. then where would these maps will go to? Wouldn't you need way or another the PCIII to stick 'em inside? 74695[/snapback] Tuneboy, FIM, and Direct-Link, overwrite the map in the ECU, directly. All that you need is a computer, a special serial cable, the software, and the license key. They simply flash the ROM. The only thing that makes TuneBoy, FIM Ultimap, or DirectLink more difficult than a PCIII is that many dyno-tuners will refuse to use it. Ben could buy the TuneBoy software, download the key, and then bring the software and bike to Manley-Cycles, and if they are willing, they can re-program the ECU with TuneBoy's TuneEdit program. Or they can just stick with the FIM Ultimap, which should do the same as the Tuneboy. I believe the advantage of the Tuneboy is that the editing software is less expensive than the FIM editing software, but I don't understand FIM's pricing, so I am not sure. The keys for FIM, DirectLink and TuneBoy, are about the same price, $100-$150 (With any software package, you need one key per ECU. If the dealer has the editing software, then you only need a key, unless you want to edit it yourself.) The editing software is only necessary if you want to tinker, or loan it to a dyno-tuner to tune your ECU. TuneBoy can overlay serial PCIII maps through interpolation, so if downloaded maps are good enough for you, TuneBoy will save you money. If you want to use a USB PCIII map, there are a few more steps, and you need a program like MS Excel to export to and import from... so if you want to use a USB PCIII map, it is a little inconvenient. From my experience with downloaded maps, they are always wrong and benefit from intelligent tweaking. YMMV. PS Hey Antonio, which are you betting on? TuneBoy or PCIII
Pierre Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 The editing software is only necessary if you want to tinker, or loan it to a dyno-tuner to tune your ECU. 74706[/snapback] David, replied over here: http://guzzitech.com/PHPBB/viewtopic.php?p=241#241 ... as sport i and centauro don't share ECUs with the V-11s - so pretty irrelevenat on this board. Would like your feed back.
RacerX Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 From my experience with downloaded maps, they are always wrong and benefit from intelligent tweaking. YMMV. David, let's just set the record straight that this is just your opinion. That said, yes every bike should really spend some time on the dyno to assure things are ideal... HOWEVER, from *my* experience, with most maps of exact mods and TPS setting, pre-built maps can be amazingly accurate. I've spoken with well over a hundred people that have taken their bikes to the dyno, and were told that there was no need for a custom map. Your "always wrong" statement above is blatantly incorrect, and I'm not sure what qualifies your "experience" with tuning outside of tinkering and taking your bike to a Tuning Link dyno awhile ago. Don't mean to be harsh, but I cannot/will not allow misguided/incorrect information on this subject. This will be my last post on this topic.
al_roethlisberger Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 If that is Doug Lofgren and ManleyCycles, I think everyone would agree you are in good hands!Everytime I read his tech reports I am impressed: http://www.manleycycle.com/Tech.htm These are three of his most interesting articles: http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/mgv11ex.htm V11Sport http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/more_mg.htm more V11Sport and the benefits of Stucchi X-over http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/chip_talk.htm A/F ratio variations in Ducati 996 The last one exemplifies why the type of tuning that Doug does produces the best result, because he does not rely on set A/F to determine what is right for the bike. Unlike PCIII tuning-link tuners, I'll bet he'll guarantee the bike won't ping when he is done with it. 74676[/snapback] Yep, I spoke with Doug a few years back, but since he wasn't exactly "close" and shipping or riding the bike up to him was out of the question at the time, I went with a mapped ECU(adjusted timing for DP heads) from TLM and a PCIII. I don't know if TuneBoy was available then or not, but no one had mentioned it at the tme when we had the long "dual-plug" thread, so I never looked into it. If I had been close to Manley, I would have preferred to go the ECU flash route, just for simplicity, *BUT* then I would have had to do it at least one other time as I've added other modifications since then, so the points about cost/flexibility are also accurate. I still ping every so often in stinkin' hot weather, but not as bad as before. al
Pierre Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 I went with a mapped ECU from TLM and a PCIII. I still ping every so often in stinkin' hot weather, but not as bad as before. al 74717[/snapback] Al, I suppose I should do a search, but what's a "mapped ECU from TLM?" I understand the V-11s don't have a chip to play with, so I'm guessing TLM is someone who reprograms the ECU? Just trying to figure out what you V-11 guys have done, and what part (if any) applies to the sport i / centauro ECU. TIA.
DeBenGuzzi Posted January 17, 2006 Author Posted January 17, 2006 That would be Doug Lofgren,I'll bet.I had him tune mine about 5 years ago when I put on Mike Rich dual plugged heads.At that time he used the FIM Ultimap which is flashloaded into the ecu.There is a code that goes with it so after the box is tweaked the first time subsequent tuning is cheaper as you have already paid for the program.I used that because I needed to also adjust the ignition timing and the other programs were not out yet.After 5 years and 60K miles I am still satisfied.If Doug does it, it'll be right but it aint cheep.Keep us posted,John 74671[/snapback] BINGO, I haven't talked to Doug yet but he isn't sure if he will do it or send it to a guy he trained to do it in st.paul luckily for me I'm very close to (in distance) Doug and Manley Cycles, Manley qouted me $300 for a dyno tune of the PCIII and Doug qouted me $500 for an ECU tune and I can throw out(sell) my PCIII. So thats where it sits and after reading all this I'm no more decided than b4 I started lookin. I think I might go the Lofgren route as I don't plan to change anything outside of maybe getting Ti pipes if anything happens to my CF but I'm sure they would be really close in map settings if I just do that. PS. I got my trick CRG levers from good ole Manley when motoprimo told me no one had them in stock, neat shop but obviously all about tuning and fancy bits not much in the place.
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