An Alternative View.....

[Frenchbob]

I sometimes commute along the M62 to Leeds, and the traffic is normally moving very slowly or at a standstill in the morning for about 17 miles, and I cringe when I see bikes filtering at 60mph- there is so much lane swapping by myopic car drivers they could be splatted in an instant.

 

I tend to filter at slightly more than walking pace and feather the front brake just in case.

 

The weird thing is that some riders just sit at a standstill in the pouring rain with the traffic, when there is plenty of room to filter- they may as well be in a car!

 

Guy 

77630[/snapback]

 

In France, we are lucky in this respect. It is expected that bikes will filter, anticipated, and if car drivers do get in the way, all hell breaks loose from the motorcyclists, especially in Paris, where the queues of traffic part in front of you like the Red Sea for Moses!

[Guest Nogbad]

I sometimes commute along the M62 to Leeds, and the traffic is normally moving very slowly or at a standstill in the morning for about 17 miles, and I cringe when I see bikes filtering at 60mph- there is so much lane swapping by myopic car drivers they could be splatted in an instant.

 

I tend to filter at slightly more than walking pace and feather the front brake just in case.

 

The weird thing is that some riders just sit at a standstill in the pouring rain with the traffic, when there is plenty of room to filter- they may as well be in a car!

 

Guy 

77630[/snapback]

 

On the M25 there are plenty of nutters who filter at silly speeds, I always let them pass me, but cagers in the south seem quite aware of courier nutters and I have rarely seen a splat. For myself I only go slow like you, maybe a bit quicker if I am following another reasonably sensible bike as he will splat first. I had one near miss with a lane changer, but was travelling slow enough to spot his head turning and I hit the brakes and the horn to good effect. That's one moron in 3 years filtering twice a day over 20 miles of jams.

[Martin Barrett]

I sometimes commute along the M62 to Leeds, and the traffic is normally moving very slowly or at a standstill in the morning for about 17 miles, and I cringe when I see bikes filtering at 60mph- there is so much lane swapping by myopic car drivers they could be splatted in an instant.

 

I tend to filter at slightly more than walking pace and feather the front brake just in case.

 

The weird thing is that some riders just sit at a standstill in the pouring rain with the traffic, when there is plenty of room to filter- they may as well be in a car!

 

Guy 

77630[/snapback]

 

 

On the M25 there are plenty of nutters who filter at silly speeds, I always let them pass me, but cagers in the south seem quite aware of courier nutters and I have rarely seen a splat. For myself I only go slow like you, maybe a bit quicker if I am following another reasonably sensible bike as he will splat first. I had one near miss with a lane changer, but was travelling slow enough to spot his head turning and I hit the brakes and the horn to good effect. That's one moron in 3 years filtering twice a day over 20 miles of jams.

77636[/snapback]

 

Ah - Guilty(ish)

Where I come down the A1M junc 7 -4 on my early shift it is solid. I join at 7 and take up a central position between the lanes, once past the jucntion and everyone has sorted themselves out, there is two lanes nose to tail both lanes doing very approximatly the same spead, and no gaps big enough between the cars to allow any wayward lane changing. I can then set off down the middle.

It can thin out but never in the outside lane. Once the nearside is clear I'll move over in to 1st third of that to undertake giving the outside a wide bearth.

I quite offten go for the meat in the sandwich after watching both pieces of bread to make sure they hold a steady course. Do it a fair speed differential to minimise time as the meat. More preferable to letting the sandwich lozenge and the faster one cut back to the nearside.

When it thins out too much also stop undertaking.

Also not when it goes back to three lanes (junc 6), theres just too much leeway for lateral movement.

Concentrate very hard watching traffic flow/patterns/movement and clues from the drivers. Occasional headlight flash just to make sure that they know I'm there.

[Guzzirider]

In France, we are lucky in this respect. It is expected that bikes will filter, anticipated, and if car drivers do get in the way, all hell breaks loose from the motorcyclists, especially in Paris, where the queues of traffic part in front of you like the Dead Sea for Moses!

77635[/snapback]

 

 

I have noticed the extra courtesy that French drivers pay motorcyclists (are you reading this Deben??).

 

I once got stuck on a huge 200 mile traffic jam (it was a French holiday) on the autoroute on the way down to the Pyrenees, and they give you lots of room to filter.

 

I must admit to doing something I would never do in England- after a while I noticed that all the French bikers were tearing down the hard shoulder and I was the only biker cutting down the middle of the lanes. So with the "when in France do as the French do" attitude, I rode for about a hundred miles down the hard shoulder, just keeping an eye in my mirrors for any emergency vehicles that might need the lane. All the car drivers were out of their stationary cars, enjoying the sun, eating picnics and playing cards etc whilst the traffic was at a standstill.

 

Guy

[big J]

A valid enough view....

 

Still think block colours are going to do you more favours though.

 

A bit of audible presence can help too! 

 

Nige. 

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I used to have an excellent army surplus camoflage jacket and trousers

 

Truly great,warm and dry,wish I still had it,but I put it down in the back garden one day and haven't been able to find it since.

[John in Leeds]

Concentrate very hard watching traffic flow/patterns/movement and clues from the drivers.

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You’ve hit the nail on the head here Martin. Of course you cannot predict the totally unpredictable, that’s why we ride past junctions from the side generally thinking that traffic will not pull out in front of you. Watch for clues that you have not been seen, no reduction in speed eye contact etc. but that’s it, otherwise we would crawl past all junctions. We can however see where other users can go, where the are likely to go and where they can’t go, giving us good clues for our most effective passage.

 

One thing does concern me (as a fairly regular cyclist) why is it that cyclist unlit at night bombing through the traffic never seem to get knocked off, whereas club cyclists lit up like Christmas trees with hi viz get killed with monotonous regularity? Is it that road users subconsciously perceive a danger to themselves. An easily seen cyclist is no threat and to be brushed aside, the unlit cyclist not clearly seen and therefore requires a conscious decision.

 

My experience on my towering 1150 GS was I was usually given loads of room, certainly more than on my other bikes. I suspect this is the same for the ig HDs and Wingnuts.

 

One thing to me is a certainty, you can be a great rider in your roadcraft but I have so far been a ‘lucky barstard’

 

May you all be ‘Lucky Barstards’

[Guzzirider]

One thing does concern me (as a fairly regular cyclist) why is it that cyclist unlit at night bombing through the traffic never seem to get knocked off, whereas club cyclists lit up like Christmas trees with hi viz get killed with monotonous regularity? 

 

77676[/snapback]

 

I wonder if that is down to the type of roads they cycle on. The commuter carving up the traffic on his mountain bike is totally focussed on what the cars are doing, and in general the traffic is moving slowly.

 

The club cyclist in a group on a fast A road on Sunday morning in the Dales when big 4 x 4 s are thundering around blind bends at 60 mph? Maybe more dangerous, especially when they are riding 2 abreast and chatting, maybe not concentrating on the other traffic?

 

Out of interest, in a previous job when I used to do a a four mile commute by mountain bike through Southampton city centre, I could do it 5 mins quicker than if I took my motorbike, although now I would probably have a heart attack after the first 100 yards with all these hills.

 

Guy

[Ballacraine]

It may be just an impression I have got.........

 

 

but the road discipline of your average young cyclist seems based more on Kamikaze than Tai Chi

 

Nige.

[John in Leeds]

The club cyclist in a group on a fast A road on Sunday morning in the Dales when big 4 x 4 s are thundering around blind bends at 60 mph?

Guy 

77678[/snapback]

 

 

These 4 x 4s never seem to run into tractors or other heavy stuff, that's the reason for my thinking - they make the choice

[Ballacraine]

These 4 x 4s never seem to run into tractors or other heavy stuff, that's the reason for my thinking - they make the choice 

77682[/snapback]

 

Generally they appear only see things that will damage their own vehicle.

 

'Sod everything and everybody else, I feel safe in my tank!'

 

....Risk compensation?

 

Nige.

[John in Leeds]

It may be just an impression I have got.........

but the road discipline of your average young cyclist seems based more on Kamikaze than Tai Chi 

 

Nige. 

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Just practicing till they are wealthy enough to put the deposit down on a Gixer thou

[velofish]

I follow the General George Patton school of defensive driving-- The best defense is a good offense, so I offend as many other road users as I can.

 

fish

[dlaing]

Those of you who sometimes visit Wildguzzi, the board for sad old farts like me   might of seen my post from a couple of days ago where I extolled the wonders of having parked my truck, (A 3 Tonne, 4.2 litre turbo diesel, Nissan patrol, scarecely the worlds least conspicuous vehicle.) outside the local supermarket to get some milk for work. When I hopped back in and started to pull out from the centre of the road a woman in a sedan whipped out of the centre park a few cars down and almost ploughed into me. I was already moving before she was so it was, theoretically, my 'Right of Way'.

 

We both stopped, luckily without contact, but when I peered over to to examine the mongoloid involved I saw that she actually had her laptop computer between her torso and the steering wheel and was doing her f@cking e-mail as she pulled out of the park!!!!!

 

Guy's it doesn't matter if you dress like a fireworks display, have pulsing lights, ride within the speed limits at all times, have loud pipes or quiet ones the only thing that will save your sorry arses is believing that every other person on the road, no matter how many wheels they're traveling on, is a mentally deficient mouth breather who can only feed themselves accurately if they lie on their backs and use a funnel in their mouths and a really big spoon!!!!

 

You can call it 'Defensive Riding' you can call it 'Anti-Moron Travel' you can call it any damn thing you like but the fact remains it's no good pissing and moaning if you're lying on a porcelain slab with a pathologist tut-tutting over you.

 

Don't worry, I'm no 'Safety First' dropkick. I only ever seem to have three points remaining on my licence at any one time and I loose them all through being caught *Speeding* on deserted country roads I know like the back of my hand. I've also had my fair share of prangs over the years. Most of those have been self inflicted and I've never broken a serious bone but I'm convinced that the reasons for that are simple. I don't speed in town. I treat other road users with respect even if they are checking the form guide on their steering wheel or think that they are proving a point by rounding up the fat old geezer on the Moto Guzzi on their CBR600 or R6, (Like? They're proving what exactly???? ) and most importantly I think you're all a load of brain-dead dropkicks who don't understand the laws of physics, aren't trained to control your vehicles and have a pathological desire to see me dead, (Don't worry, lots of people out of vehicles feel the same way!).

 

Safety is a complete non-issue. If you ride a motorbike believing it's safe? BOY, HAVE I GOT NEWS FOR YOU! Motorbikes are more dangerous than cars, sorry, sad but true. If that worries you f@ck off and buy whatever four wheeled conveyance currently comes out tops in the *safety* surveys and drive around never exceeding 30KPH and wear a bicycle helmet at all times to protect yourself from head injury in the event of an *accident*.

 

If however you chose to ride a motorbike because it's bloody good fun and you think that al the current road rules are basically useless because everybody else drives and rides like shit don't try and blame everything on other people as if it's an *excuse*! You know their blind wombats and c*nts! treat them accordingly! But stop whining that it isn't safe! It's your choice. If you don't like the heat? Get out of the kitchen!!!!!  

 

Pete

77589[/snapback]

Oh boy, another opportunity to play prosecutor of the devil. (or is it advocate against the saint???)

First of all, it does matter how visible you are. Certainly you are fool to depend on visibility, but it does increase your odds of survival.

Second of all, if I thought everyone on the road was that big of a moron, I would never go near a road. Colorful and amusing Pete's writing is, but it is not accurate. A better approach is to assume not that everone is an incredible idiot, but to assume that they might be an incredible idiot.

Third of all, safety is a complete issue. If you don't ride safely, you deserve to have your license pulled, and your bones pulverized, you c@nt lick fearing wombats.

 

But good point about not blaming "everything on other people as if it's an *excuse*! "

I don't think I have ever heard a Guzzi rider fall into that category, but many inexperienced riders of crap bikes, seem to fit that bill.

[Guest Nogbad]

Bikers as a group probably exemplify natural selection in practice. If you are still on a bike in your 30s and beyond, you are probably a. Skilful, b. Good at assessing risk. The hooligan / dim / suicidal element has either died or given up the hobby due to multiple "offs" by this time.

 

The other high risk "born again" group don't tend to buy Guzzis, so my theory shouldn't be skewed by accountants shagging their secretaries and buying Gixxers to ride on Sundays because they finally realise they wasted their youth and health on something totally boring.

[g.forrest]

i was at one time considering manufacturing walking stick, crutch racks for harleys as there seemed to be many of their riders needing walking supports..seemed most bought the pride and joy from the previous ride after the insurance claim.. l

Bikers as a group probably exemplify natural selection in practice. If you are still on a bike in your 30s and beyond, you are probably a. Skilful, b. Good at assessing risk. The hooligan / dim / suicidal element has either died or given up the hobby due to multiple "offs" by this time.

 

The other high risk "born again" group don't tend to buy Guzzis, so my theory shouldn't be skewed by accountants shagging their secretaries and buying Gixxers to ride on Sundays because they finally realise they wasted their youth and health on something totally boring.

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