Chiropractic "medicine"

[DeBenGuzzi]

got into a debate in psychology that chiroprators are real doctors and I said "yeah witch doctors," I vote quacktacular, I think they do a good service call it massage therapy but doctor? and one person even claimed to me that chiropracty can cure all the ailments of the body, I then rebutted, SO if my apendix is gonna burst then you can rub my back and make it all better? they responded "it might not have inflammed if you went to one for its preventative properties" I about died (laughing) some people see chiropractic medicine as a religion, I see it as a strange and sometimes dangerous cult. , yeah not medicine.

[dlaing]

I have never been to a chiropractor, but my ex became one after she dumped my sorry ass.

Actually, she had great benefits from chiropracty, which encouraged her to become one.

Most of the people that I know that have tried chiropractors, swear by them and recommend them. But, I have heard a few say they are quacks and their back problelms got worse.

As for MDs, I think more of them are quacks.

They can usually only diagnose what I already know ails me.

I avoid MDs like the plauge.

But I did find for the first time in my life an MD that does blood tests for cholesterol, sugar and a few other things.

He has recommended dietary changes and supplements that I believe have really helped me.

I have been meaning to see a chiropractor office recommended by my ex.

I'll keep you posted, if I ever do it.

 

I am sure DOCC can fill us in on the educational requirements, that I suspect are somewhere between a nurse and an MD.

From what I have read, it does not generally take as long to get a DOCC as it does to become an MD or an RN.

I suspect the academics may be as challenging as for an MD but I really don't know

[v50man]

I've got a sweet hippie chick Chiropractor and when the MD's fail to address my lower back pain, she often can. And, oh yeah, I live in the land of Life Chiropractic College -- ATL.

 

Like MDs -- there's good and bad. Most chiros I've met have been sincere.

[g.forrest]

being a patient is a bit like joining a religion. where you are to feel obligated to visit regularly or accept the consequences of your non compliance.but they cure nothing, they can give some short term relief though i think, but could never be to sure as only went when at my worst,and was allways told that it takes 2-3 days for improvement after treatment, the one thing i am sure of is it's a good cash income business for the practioners.

got into a debate in psychology that chiroprators are real doctors and I said "yeah witch doctors," I vote quacktacular, I think they do a good service call it massage therapy but doctor? and one person even claimed to me that chiropracty can cure all the ailments of the body, I then rebutted, SO if my apendix is gonna burst then you can rub my back and make it all better? they responded "it might not have inflammed if you went to one for its preventative properties" I about died (laughing) some people see chiropractic medicine as a religion, I see it as a strange and sometimes dangerous cult.  , yeah not medicine. 

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[Admin Jaap]

A chiropractor (manual therapist) cured my lower backpain I suffered from for five years. It took 7 or 8 sessions, but I'm pain free for over a year now!

 

But they are not doctors.

[DeBenGuzzi]

I kind of want to go see one, but finding a good one isn't so easy around here, they pump'em out by the bucket loads and many will say anything to get you to habitually see them. I Also agree a lot of actual doctors are quacks I always try to get to a specialist for my ailments. penn and teller did a thing on chiropractors its worth taking a look. I like having my back cracked but having someone going as far as never getting vaccinated for anything and never taking any medicine because "it can all by cured with the alignment of the spine." well I guess that just means if we're lucky there will be less stupid ppl in the world of the future. that and jahovas, don't get my started. or mormans my word, lets just not get into religeon. too touchy.

[Ralph Werner]

If you want to read some interesting articles and opinions about chiropractic check out www.quackwatch.com.

[stogieBill]

I guess it boils down to how you personally define a doctor. If a doctor is someone you go see to cure aches and pains and a chiropractor does; they are a doctor.

 

My wife has a compression fracture in her back. Its basically a permanent condition. "Regular" doctors took xrays and prescribed medicine and or physical therapy. However, she got relief when she saw the chiropractor. In my book, that's a doctor.

[Guest Nogbad]

I haven't been to one myself, but I have friends and colleagues who have used them. Without exception they have derived benefit from the treatment. Whilst I didn't vote Doctor, I do think they are clever massage therapists.

[docc]

Oh jeez . . . this is a hard debate to keep concise. Maybe even civil.

 

How about some ground rules?

 

First, Chiropractic is not a religion. But it involves beliefs. Your beliefs about what healing is may be different than you doctor's beliefs.

 

Second, are Chiropractors doctors? True, this can depand on your opinion of what a 'doctor' is or should do. My degree that reads "Doctor of Chiropractic" is from an accredited college and took six years to get. I'm also board certifeid both nationally and by the state. My "scope of practice" both allows and requires that I examine, diagnose, order the proper tests, treat and refer if necessary. (Neither massage therapists, physical therapists or nurses have this scope.)

 

It is notable that scope and licensure differ by state. In Tennessee , as in many states, I am a licensed Physician. In the State of Washington the scope is very limtied. Adjustment of the spine only - no extremities ( I treat all the joints of the body)- no nutrition-no therapy. Next door in Oregon they deliver babies and do minor surgery. Yet, Chiropractors are not Medical Doctors. If you are looking for drugs and surgery you should seek an MD or Osteopath. If your condition warrants drugs or surgery your Chiropractor should have the clinical skills to refer you appropriately. I coordinate referals to all specialties as well as order MRI and CT scan from the local hospital. I operate my own licensed and regulated x-ray facility and employ licensed technitions and assistants.

 

If your doctor doesn't have time to listen to you, doesn't have trained and attentive staff and efficiently coordinate tests and referals then he's not a very professional doctor no matter what his credentials. It is hard to find a good doctor, Chiropractor or otherwise. Look how hard it is to find a good Guzzi mechanic. The way care is paid for often has interfered with good and appropriate care. It has created a sea of appointment mills. This is so from dentistry to pediatrics. ( Probably not Veterinary Medicine as these are some of the most intelligent and sincere doctors in the world).

 

Finally, for now, a docotr's practice can be defined by the patients who present to him. I have patients with back and neck pain. Others whose condition has progressed to nerve involvement. Others who want medical alternatives. Others yet who require surgical interventions or strict encouragement to see their medical physician. Unfortunately, I know other docors who give evryone the same thing. Chiropractors who give the same adjustment to everyone evry time. Medical Doctors who prescribe the same narrow range of drugs. Caveat Emptor.

[docc]

My young son home schools sixth grade . Looking over my shoulder just now he exclaims, "Chiropractic? I thought they just talked about motorcycles?"

 

"No, son", says I, " These are an exceptional and intelligent group apt to discuss all sorts of the world's mysteries."

 

Looking at the poll I had to explain what "witch doctors" are and why anyone would say that's what I do.

 

Simpler were the massage therapists as we know several personally, refer to others and have even employed a few.

 

Massage employs various techniques to purge the musculature of knots, cords, tightness and chemical accumulations. They do not ( should not) diagnose ( determine what is wrong) or manipulate the joints. Within the clinical community their scope places them under doctor's orders just as nurses function. Otherwise you can go get a massage anytime just like you can get your hair cut. Often in the same place. As always there are some really talented and skilled Massage Therapists. And there are some incompetants, perverts and charlitans. Chiropractors and Medical Doctors are autonomous.

 

Chiropractic is not massage. If the Chiropractor is doing nothing but rubbing , he's not doing Chiropractic. Chiropractic was defined ('discovered') in Iowa USA 1895. Various techniques have evolved to find and release fixations of the joints, especially in the spine. Trauma, posture and degeneration can all lead to the loss of motion of joints. The joint may 'pop' or 'crack' when mobilized but not necessarily so.

 

The profound effect of the 'adjustment' as this is often called is upon the function of the nerve.

 

Nerves are reflex organs. As the nerves emanate from the spine to control all function in the body, it may be impinged or irritated by a dysfunctional joint. The resulting nerve reflexes cause pain, muscle spasms and inflammation. Left to its own this "subluxation complex" will continue to affect nerve function both downstream ( pain down the leg or arm, changes in organ function) and upstream ( fatigue, irritabilty, sleep disturbance and such).

 

A joint fixation is like that lower shock link with no grease in it. It's tight, restricted and, if you don't do something about it, It's going to tear up.

 

The nerve irritation is more like your wiring harness impinged at the steering head. Trouble starts showing up downstream where it may seem unrelated to the point of impingement ( headlight dim, fingers numb, intermittent starting,digestive problems).

 

Claims that Chiropractic can affect disease process doesn't seem that pagan when you under stand the effect is mediated by the nervous system. Like the electrical system on the Guzzi, when all the connections are good and well grounded and no circuits are overloaded the whole bike runs better.

 

When the nerves of the body are free to function without impingement by the joints, the whole person functions better and healing is enhanced.

 

As in electrical problems the biggest trouble is getting the smoke back in the wires. If you wait that long, you don't need dielectric grease. You need a fire extinguisher. If your apppendix ruptures, go to the Emergency Room.

[Guest Nogbad]

Youv'e convinced me anyway. Maybe Jaap can change my vote to "Doctor". Pity you are so far away, my right elbow is killing me.

[docc]

As Chiropractic is an American thing I'm not sure who the Chiropractors are in Britain or Europe.

 

Maybe Jaap can change your vote to 'Witch Doctor" and I can whip up a little eye of newt from here . . .

[Anthro]

As Chiropractic is an American thing I'm not sure who the Chiropractors are in Britain or Europe.

 

Maybe Jaap can change your vote to 'Witch Doctor" and I can whip up a little eye of newt from here . . .

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I do believe that they provide an effective procedure that indeed affects the human body sometimes in a positive and permanent way. But receiving the labeld of Medics, Doctors is rather a social thing, so strong that is hard to see a 'Doctor' not wearing the stetoscope, - even do an important number of American Doctors do not know how to really use it- ... same with the white coat... (Doctors' community recognized ornaments)

 

To be a doctor is both effective actions and ritualized behaviour...

 

In this context the community of Chiropractors is indeed missing some social interface to be labeled as doctors...

 

Me I never used them, but I do agree with the ideas exposed by Docc. I have friends who use Chiropractors services and they lik them.

 

The human body is so complex that the just allopatic approach must not be sufficient for comprehensive wellness

 

Anthro

[Mike Stewart]

Docc is spot on as usual

 

I started going to a Chiropractor many years ago for back problems. Many Doctors at the time would just give you muscle relaxers at that time and hopefully the problem would cure it self (usually not).

 

After my crash last Sept, I was suprised to find out what the Doctors and pelvic specialist thought my recovery rate should be. They seem to be pretty clueless on how long it takes the body to heal. Yes, it only takes 6 weeks for bones to heal but what about all the other injuries.

 

Anyway, my Chiropractor kept telling me how long it was going to take time wise to heal and gave me many lectures what I should not be doing during recovery. Working with her and going to Physical Theropy is the best thing for a speedy recovery. From working on my tight muscles in my back which causes slight numbness in my leg to stretching out my muscles from my three broken ribs, working on my thumb and wrist pain, the Chiropractor is the only place to go. Oh yeah, it was my Chiropractor that found my broken ribs, not the Doctor .

 

Stay in good health,

Mike

 

 

 

Oh jeez . . . this is a hard debate to keep concise. Maybe even civil.

 

How about some ground rules?

 

First, Chiropractic is not a religion. But it involves beliefs. Your beliefs about what healing is may be different than you doctor's beliefs.

 

Second, are Chiropractors doctors? True, this can depand on your opinion of what a 'doctor' is or should do.  My degree that reads "Doctor of Chiropractic" is from an accredited college and took six years to get. I'm also board certifeid both nationally and by the state. My "scope of practice" both allows and requires that I examine, diagnose, order the proper tests, treat and refer if necessary. (Neither massage therapists, physical therapists or nurses have this scope.)

 

It is notable that scope and licensure differ by state. In Tennessee , as in many states, I am a licensed Physician. In the State of Washington the scope is very limtied. Adjustment of the spine only - no extremities ( I treat all the joints of the body)- no nutrition-no therapy. Next door in Oregon they deliver babies and do minor surgery. Yet, Chiropractors are not Medical Doctors. If you are looking for drugs and surgery you should seek an MD or Osteopath. If your condition warrants drugs or surgery your Chiropractor should have the clinical skills to refer you appropriately. I coordinate referals to all specialties as well as order MRI and CT scan from the local hospital. I operate my own licensed and regulated x-ray facility and employ licensed technitions and assistants.

 

If your doctor doesn't have time to listen to you, doesn't have trained and attentive staff and efficiently coordinate tests and referals then he's not a very professional doctor no matter what his credentials. It is hard to find a good doctor, Chiropractor or otherwise. Look how hard it is to find a good Guzzi mechanic. The way care is paid for often has interfered with good and appropriate care. It has created  a sea of appointment mills. This is so from dentistry to pediatrics. ( Probably not Veterinary Medicine as these are some of the most intelligent and sincere doctors in the world).

 

Finally, for now, a docotr's practice can be defined by the patients who present to him. I have patients with back and neck pain. Others whose condition has progressed to nerve involvement. Others who want medical alternatives. Others yet who require surgical interventions or strict encouragement to see their medical physician. Unfortunately, I know other docors who give evryone the same thing. Chiropractors who give the same adjustment to everyone evry time. Medical Doctors who  prescribe the same narrow range of drugs. Caveat Emptor.

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