any cam issues on late v11?

[Wick]

The sound that I was hearing started after the bike warmed up. It was actually normal for the first few minutes. It would then come and go depending on how I had the engine loaded up.The noise got louder with more mileage. (100 miles or so) If you want more details, call Mike Haven at MPH. He found the problem and fixed the bike.

 

Wick

[beauchemin]

I had heard whispers, but nothing concrete, on some of theV11's having soft cams. Certainly to me it sounds like a dead cam and follower to me. Get to it quick, as it's wearing away it will be flinging case hardened shit up the bores and every which way. A lot of the Hydro Cali's that went tits-up ended up needing new *everythings*

Is it possible to have camshaft wear only on the lobes and not the base circle? (i.e the valve clearances are not increasing, but the topend is still noisy).

 

My symptoms today: the intermittant noise is not so intermittant anymore. The sound is less "clangy", but it is more or less constant now. I reset the valve clearances a couple of days ago and sync'd the throttle bodies - that made no difference. The clearances were not much different from where I had set them 700 mile ago.

 

As with Wick's experience, I've been told by the mechanic at Moto International that it could be a big-end bearing. I've heard a few big-end knocks and they were characterized by a low-frequency knocking that was most obvious at idle. My top-end is quiet at idle - but gets noisy above 2500 rpm.

 

I think I'm going to ride it down to Seattle this week for them to have a listen. What a pain - at least its still on warranty.

[Steve G.]

Is it possible to have camshaft wear only on the lobes and not the base circle?  (i.e the valve clearances are not increasing, but the topend is still noisy).

 

My symptoms today:  the intermittant noise is not so intermittant anymore.  The sound is less "clangy", but it is more or less constant now.  I reset the valve clearances a couple of days ago and sync'd the throttle bodies - that made no difference.  The clearances were not much different from where I had set them 700 mile ago.

 

As with Wick's experience, I've been told by the mechanic at Moto International that it could be a big-end bearing.  I've heard a few big-end knocks and they were characterized by a low-frequency knocking that was most obvious at idle.  My top-end is quiet at idle - but gets noisy above 2500 rpm.

 

I think I'm going to ride it down to Seattle this week for them to have a listen.  What a pain - at least its still on warranty.

82841[/snapback]

Sorry to hear that sound is getting bigger Chris. Tell me what the story is when you get back from M.I..

Do you have a mechanics stethescope? These things can really isolate the sound to one particular place.

Ciao, Steve G.

[Baldini]

... Do you have a mechanics stethescope? These things can really isolate the sound to one particular place.....

 

Or a big screwdriver.

[Wick]

I'm betting that it is the rod bearings like mine. Hope everything works out...

 

Wick

[bigbikerrick]

I'm betting that it is the rod bearings like mine. Hope everything works out...

 

Wick

83308[/snapback]

Hey Wick, Did Mike Haven by any chance tell you what was the cause for your rod bearing failure? a lubrication problem/ oil pressure perhaps, or just a poorly installed bearing, defective....It would be nice to know the CAUSE, if thats possible.

[Wick]

No issues with oil. Considering that Guzzi was broke when this bike was built and there were other bearing problems on my bike(wheel bearings), I suspect lowest bidder parts were the cause. The bike runs great since the surgury. This problem started just shy of 2K miles...

 

Wick

[beauchemin]

I trucked it to the boys at Moto International yesterday morning. I fired it up for them to listen. After it warmed up I was able to demonstrate the sound with some throttle blipping (above 2500 rpm). Micha took it for a quick blast up the hill and immediately could hear the knocking. It doesn't sound like a typical big-end knock - it sounds more like a very loud tappet. He will dismantle it tomorrow for a look. I'll update this in a few days. My bet, like Wick, is the big-end. I've checked the valves and they aren't loose and the clearances have not been changing.

[guzzista]

Well, with the cam and lifters finally off (at the local dealer), there is a good 100 thou missing from the lifter end and the corrisponding cam lobe is equally chewed up...time to see if Guzzi/Piaggio steps up in a timely fashion or I will have to get the cam welded, reground and hardness tested myself in order to get my (850 miles old ) back on the road...

[Greg Field]

Thatsa lotsa schrapnel run through the engine.

 

Likely, the oil filter got it all. Make the dealer look at the big-end shells for signs of damage, too.

[beauchemin]

Problem solved --> worn big-ends, see here http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7542

[guzzista]

Thanks, Mr Field! , will definitely have the dealer check that before closing up the crank case box. As far as the cam, while patiently waiting for Piaggio..mmm.. Guzzi, I had Progressive Automotive in University Place ,WA, repair the cam , hardness test it , finish the tops of the remaining ( good) 3 lifters as well as the new lifter that I provided and now , if the OEM stuff does not show up, in a timely fashion, at least,I dont have to wait ad nauseum....and if any of you guys( at least in the States) does any engine work requiring specialty high perf head work and other similar stuff, Steve at Progressive Automotive is definitely someone worth knowing.He is mostly a car/ race engine guy, but does great work( done some trick stuff on my rare Alfa twin Spark top ends) and , after my Coppa Cam, has a ready set-up to deal with the V11 cam lobes...more to follow ...maybe this summer my Coppa will get to see the Buckaroo bar...

[Skeeve]

... I had Progressive Automotive in  University Place ,WA,  repair the cam , hardness  test it , finish the tops of the remaining ( good) 3 lifters as well as the new lifter that I provided ....and if any of you guys does any engine work requiring specialty high perf head work and other similar stuff, Steve at  Progressive Automotive  is definitely someone worth knowing.He is mostly a car/ race engine guy, but does  great work  and , after my Coppa Cam, has a ready set-up to deal with the V11 cam lobes...

85459[/snapback]

(edited for brevity)

 

All very cool! I'm curious tho'; what with all the various comparisons of the Guzzi V2 being a lot like a Chevy small block over the years, is there any way to fit some roller lifters to the v11 mill? Seems like this guy Steve would be a good bet as far as reprofiling a cam to a roller config.; but is the idea practical at all?

 

Ah well, something for those performance maven out there in v11LM-land to contemplate, I'm outta my league here!

[guzzista]

Summing up my Coppa saga of the worn lifter and cam lobe.... After a bit of a vacation ( for the bike , not me), I got the Coppa back from the dealer( who, by the way is still waiting for a replacement cam.... ) after I got Progressive Automotive to repair, regrind and heat treat the cam and all the tappets( including the new one from MG Cycles). I was told that the bike was stalling , and after the CO was reset , I took it back. As the engine got warm, the engine would still quit as the throttle was closed.... Checked the valve adjustments , and lo and behold, the left side( the side that the cam got chewed on), had little or no tappet clearances..,but the adjusters were backed all the way out !...a few engine turns by hand and I noticed that the the pushrods were almost popping by the side of the adjusters as the valves were closing...after a few more hand turns and resetting clearances a bit at a time i got them back in spec... fired her up and she sounds fine... I am amazed that this engine is that forgiving to ham-fistedness! As they say, the proof of the puddng... we'll see how it will go tomorrow on my commute to work