V11 Modifications - Opinions?

[pete roper]

Pete:

 

An increase from 700 to 1064 is an increase of 52 percent. Tell her that she's a chip off the ol' block.

83882[/snapback]

 

(Groan!) Told you I'd been out in the sun too long!

[polebridge]

Holy Crap! You guys are real Guzzi enthusiasts! This is a great board, thanks for all the feedback and entertaining reading. I would like to get you all together and buy you a beer but I'm thinking that getting all of you in the same room might not be such a good idea! Especially since I started this thread.

 

I must say that you all have very good arguments for your particular point of view on this subject. Since my Coppa came with the Ti kit I think I will start there and install the pipes and the ECU (providing that the pipes will install in the low mount position). From there I may go for the Stucchi X pipe and maybe an air box mod of some kind. It seems like those of you who have installed the X pipe really like it.

 

I will definitely hold off on the pistons for now.

 

I do not have my bike broken in yet (550 miles so far) and my dealer cautioned me not to install the Ti kit until the bike has at least 1,000 miles on the clock. I find this advice a bit odd since I should think that the bike would have better fueling with the mods in place. He says it should run lean for the break in period. He also advised me to adhere to the RPM recommendations during break in (5K until 600 miles, 6K until 1000, and after that redline) but not to baby the engine within those limits. He says that I should basically run it hard (full throttle) from time to time.

 

Does any of this make sense to any of you?

[polebridge]

One more thing. How many posts before I am no longer a 'Rookie'?? (and does this one count?)

[polebridge]

Ok, two more things. I took my Aprilia Falco for a ride this morning. All I can say is WOW!!!

[Admin Jaap]

Polebridge, 9 more posts to go and you're a Guzzisti!

[Guest ratchethack]

I would like to get you all together and buy you a beer but I'm thinking that getting all of you in the same room might not be such a good idea!

Polebridge, we're passionate about an Italian marque that arouses passions, what more can be said? In the end, I reckon we're all Pals. A round of beers would certainly tend to smooth things out, though...

 

Does any of this make sense to any of you?

Break-in theory?!

 

WARNING - MORE CONTROVERSY AHEAD!

 

There are several good threads on this if you do a search. I think you've had good advice from your dealer. More of an education may be had at the following site:

 

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

I fully subscribe to the break-in philosophy at this site myself, having very successfully used it (or previous versions of it since before MotoMan was a gleam in his Daddy's eye ) on literally dozens of new and rebuilt motors for 40 years. I've never had an engine use any oil or experience any blow-by symptoms (the result of rings not seating properly) using this break-in technique.

 

WRT the MotoMan break-in article at link above - keep in mind that the Guzzi donk is in the category of the "older technology" air-cooled motors he refers to. As such, relative to "modern" designs, it differs in it's rough-honed cylinders, looser tolerances, and has a more significant heat dumping task than modern water-jacketed motors. Therefore, the "window of opportunity" for achieving optimum ring-seal - and therefore break-in - is far longer with the Guzzi...Many suggest that 10K miles is the end of the break-in period. It may be just me, but I experienced considerable loosening-up of the engine all the way up to nearly 20K miles - after which she has been as "flawless" a smooth-running motor as I can imagine.

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV

[polebridge]

Thanks Ratchethack.

[dlaing]

WARNING - MORE CONTROVERSY AHEAD!

 

There are several good threads on this if you do a search.  I think you've had good advice from your dealer.  More of an education may be had at the following site:

 

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

 

84068[/snapback]

I just gave motoman my email address.

I hope I don't get too much junk mail!!!

But it looks like I get a lot of good articles for giving my email address

My only disagreement with the MotoMan break in would be to keep it under ~7000RPMS for the first 500 miles(for the sake of the valves, don't take them to maximum stress level immediately, but hey, I could be wrong)

Also, I believe the Guzzi cylinder honing will outlast conventional, so if you don't get to break it in in the first 20 miles, don't sweat it, just get to the break in as soon as possible and I suspect the break in should be a little more than 20 miles.

Also, our bike does not warm up until after a few miles, right????

I did not do the the motoman method, and I am paying the consequences by having to top up every 1000 to 3000 miles depending on the brand of oil.

FWIW I top up if it drops below 3/4 or sooner if going on a 500+ mile ride.

Since I don't have windage plates, measuring the oil level accurately is important.)

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

My only disagreement with the MotoMan break in would be to keep it under ~7000RPMS for the first 500 miles(for the sake of the valves, don't take them to maximum stress level immediately, but hey, I could be wrong)

 

84082[/snapback]

 

Does the stress decrease after 500 miles? It is wear that is the concern. Stress doesn't change.

[dlaing]

Does the stress decrease after 500 miles? It is wear that is the concern. Stress doesn't change.

84086[/snapback]

Stress increases with rpm.

I suspect the valves must find there happy place and wear into it before they are ready to take maximum stress.

Keeping the RPMs below 7000 RPM does not conflict with the MotoMan's philosophy.

He presents pretty good proof that riding it hard early is good for the rings, but as for the valves, I am not sure, and would error on the safety of keeping it below ~7000 RPM.

Heck if you set the ECU to limit the RPMs to 7000, you could probably drive ride the bike twice as long before the valves wear out, and still pop wheelies.

[Guest ratchethack]

I suspect the valves must find there happy place and wear into it before they are ready to take maximum stress.

Dave, MotoMan doesn't mention anything about valves, because I don't believe that valves themselves have much to do with break-in. My understanding is that essntially there is not much valve "wear-in" OR stress. I don't know exactly how Mandello laps them in, but I doubt if they do it by hand the way I've always done it after new valves and a re-grind, with 2-stage grinding compound. This is more'n likely too labor-intensive a process for the factory. But in any case, I'd expect that however the factory laps them in is effective enough that any further "seating-in" between valve faces and seats during break-in is minimal, with negligible consequences. Otherwise we'd find valve clearances closing up more than they do during break-in.

 

Now the cam followers and rockers are another kettle o' fish. I'd expect the followers to take considerable break-in time in their bores before they achieve 100% reliability staying in contact with the back-side of cam lobes at higher RPM. They need to work-in to overcome initial tightness and tendency to "skip" on the cam faces... So I think the concern WRT valve train during break-in isn't valves, but cam followers. Now if the followers hang-up badly enough in their bores before fully breaking-in, it's my understanding that the valves can "float" and contact the piston crowns ...at least with "interference" motors...

 

Point being, I b'lieve it's not the valves that need wearing-in, it's the cam followers. Where's Pete?

[polebridge]

What about installing the Ti kit (pipes and ECU) before 1,000 miles? Does anyone know of any reason why that would be a problem?

 

Thanks.

[Greg Field]

We have sold maybe 8-9 Coppas at Moto I.

 

All but one left the showroom with the Ti pipes installed. I can see no valid reason for not installing them right away.

[Mike Stewart]

Greg is correct, I don't know why someone would say not to

 

As far as brake in, I think the limit on rpm is for rotational masses and piston to cylinder expansion. Valves should be fine from the get go but will seat in as the valves hammer the valve seats. This is why they are adjusted at the first service.

I myself ride my new bikes pretty hard to make sure the piston rings seat in well. None of my bikes that I have ever owned have used oil

 

Mike

 

 

 

We have sold maybe 8-9 Coppas at Moto I.

 

All but one left the showroom with the Ti pipes installed. I can see no valid reason for not installing them right away.

84217[/snapback]

[polebridge]

Thanks,

 

The pipes are going on ASAP!