Paul Minnaert Posted February 24, 2006 Author Posted February 24, 2006 macguzzi, tou are right about the flywheel, but because its mounted as a single unit , people talk about the clutch. And with the 2 plate clutch the flywheel is part of the clutch, with the single plate it isn't.
DeBenGuzzi Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 what exactly are the benefits to each kind? I don't really know is the two plate or single plate more like a American truck clutch.
Paul Minnaert Posted February 24, 2006 Author Posted February 24, 2006 I'm not familiar with american truck clutches, but the single plate is the type common used in cars. And things don't go wrong with the clutch part but the flywheel from aluminium. There has been a series of calis with a(different) single plate clutch. They have the problem that the plates wear out to fast. At 15000km they are gone. A part was replaced under warrenty.
macguzzi Posted February 25, 2006 Posted February 25, 2006 The clutch for our American readers is a RAM type fitted after market to most yank gas guzzlers
not_scooter_Scura! Posted February 25, 2006 Posted February 25, 2006 OK, so Mandello Rosso has same clutch (but perhaps 'different' flywheel?)
Paul Minnaert Posted February 25, 2006 Author Posted February 25, 2006 yes rosso mandello and tenni have same clutch, but as in the starting from this topic, not all scuras are asffected. And no problems are known with the rosso and tenni flywheel. So it seems there is a batch made with wrong specs/manufacturing faults.
Guest hlancee Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 Paul, Thanks for this - if you hear anything more on it please let us know. Unsurprisingly I've had no joy with getting info out of dealers or MG customer services. KB 79405[/snapback] I have lodged a claim for a new clutch assembly after my clutch disintegrated and have just heard that it was rejected because the bike is out of warranty.
Bruce Reader Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 I have lodged a claim for a new clutch assembly after my clutch disintegrated and have just heard that it was rejected because the bike is out of warranty. 80669[/snapback] Same thing happened to me. Out of warranty and not a "known" problem as far as the importer is concerned. New Ram clutch is working fine (8000 kms). Most of the failures seem to have happened around 15000 to 20000 kms. What is your odometer reading ?? A sigh of relief in another 20000 km or so. Regards Bruce
Skeeve Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 this is one, here is what happens. 79459[/snapback] Finalmente! I asked for a picture of an exploded clutch when this topic first came up on the board a year & a half ago. Thanks Paul! Anyway, the picture is truly worth 10^3 words (at minimum!) It's pretty clear that there is a stress riser at the perimeter of the bolt hole circle at the center of the disc; possibly some of the bolt holes themselves, since the cracks extend into them (indicating they may actually be the initial failure point.) So, bad machining or a combination of that with poor choice of alloy [a la' the use of 4253 alloy for the first Al scuba tanks many years ago; seemed to work great, until the necks of the bottles started to go at the base of the threads!] As someone else correctly pointed out, with aluminum, it's not a case of "if" but "when" for these kinds of things: either the part was designed correctly at the outset & it won't fail, or you'll see all of this design eventually fail. [Anyone remember the Lockheed Constellation?] Also, don't forget it's not just Scura's with the aluminum single plate clutches; Rosso Mandellos & Tennis all share this component. I'm surprised that none of the owners of these models here in the U.S. have filed a comment on the DOT's recall site; without that, there's virtually no way that Guzzi is going to shoulder the cost to swap these out... Heck, at this point, I would think Piaggio would just offer a credit against the Brevona or Griso if they were cornered on the clutch failures by the DOT. I guess having that guy buy the Tenni I was considering the day before I went to pick it up over a year ago was lucky after all...
Paul Minnaert Posted March 2, 2006 Author Posted March 2, 2006 skeeve, only scura flywheels have failed until now. And Guzzi not knowing that it happend? I know of some granated flywheels that destroyed engines & gearboxes that have been replaced under warranty, so they know of some of them. In the picture look at the big circle( 2.5") just arround the bolts, thats what they all have.
Skeeve Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 skeeve, only scura flywheels have failed until now. And Guzzi not knowing that it happend? I know of some granated flywheels that destroyed engines & gearboxes that have been replaced under warranty, so they know of some of them. In the picture look at the big circle( 2.5") just arround the bolts, thats what they all have. 80693[/snapback] Interesting that only the Scura flywheels [later than Rosso & Tenni, right?] have failed. I didn't say that Guzzi didn't know about the problem, just that they weren't likely to take responsibility for fixing it unless owners file complaints w/ their respective govt. oversight bureaus [here in the U.S.A., the Dept. of Transportation ("DOT") maintains a website where disgruntled owners can file equipment failure reports; if enough of these accrue, the DOT will force a recall.] Do we have any more info on the Scura clutches vs. the version in the Rosso Mandellos & Tennis? Did Guzzi get the clutches for the earlier bikes from an outside vendor, & then decide they could make the Scuras' Al clutch themselves? It's too bad that the clutch is such a pain to get to, but any Scura owner should start planning now to do the job, if only to save the cost of replacing their engine cases!
Ballacraine Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 It's too bad that the clutch is such a pain to get to, but any Scura owner should start planning now to do the job, if only to save the cost of replacing their engine cases! 80750[/snapback] Sad to say I would have to agree with that advice! I just hope this issue gets resolved before some poor bugger gets hurt badly. Nige.
John O'Sullivan Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 I'm going back to Spain on March 23rd to collect my Scura that left me stranded in the Pyrenees last October when the flywheel disintegrated. The pictures of said flywheel are on another thread here. I had 32,000km on the bike at the time when it decided to go titsup. I got very little warning but managed to limp the last 20km to my destination for the day. The bike has been repaired since before Christmas but I'm not willing to freeze my ass and I have a Centauro here also to keep me sane. I will send the offending flywheel to Mandello with a request for action
Baldini Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 Last November I emailed MG Customer Service, detailing failures & attaching photos. They replied "We thank you for your feedback. We have forwarded your photos to the concerned department. We agree and understand that any safety concern should be treated with maximum attention". Today I have emailed them again attaching previous email/photos, requesting a detailed & specific response to my concerns. KB
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