Brake/Clutch Fluid Change

[Dr Gil]

Someday I hope to progress beyond lame, newbie questions but it seems I’m doomed, at least for the time being.

 

I'm attempting to change my brake and clutch fluids for the first time (mine not the bikes...I hope). At the same time I'm changing the stock bleeders over to Speed Bleeders.

 

I replaced my 11 mm ear brake bleeder and one of the front 8mm bleeders. Then things get a bit confusing.; The Speed Bleeder package is labeled as having 2 10mm bleeders. They both seem to be 11mm. Now I find the clutch bleeder seems to actually be 10mm and of course, the apparently mislabeled SB's won't fit. My thinking now is that I need to order another 8mm for the other side of the front wheel and a real 10mm for the clutch. Am I right on these sizes? Is there something I'm missing about the bleeder sizes? Are they some kind of a crazy Italian thing?

 

So at any rate I decided to go ahead with what I've got and change my brake fluid first. It made sense to me to start at the real wheel, exchange all the fluid in the system and then bleed the front brakes. I opened the reservoir, cracked open the SB and pumped the rear brake pedal. I managed to get a bit of fluid out of the line but then there was nothing but air and no resistance on the pedal...it quit pumping. The reservoir on the bars is no longer going down. What am I doing wrong here? This seems elementary but I'm stumped.

 

Anyone have any suggestions?

[Guest SFGUZZI]

Someday I hope to progress beyond lame, newbie questions but it seems I’m doomed, at least for the time being. 

 

I'm attempting to change my brake and clutch fluids for the first time (mine not the bikes...I hope).  At the same time I'm changing the stock bleeders over to Speed Bleeders.

 

I replaced my 11 mm ear brake bleeder and one of the front 8mm bleeders.  Then things get a bit confusing.; The Speed Bleeder package is labeled as having 2 10mm bleeders.  They both seem to be 11mm.  Now I find the clutch bleeder seems to actually be 10mm and of course, the apparently mislabeled SB's won't fit.   My thinking now is that I need to order another 8mm for the other side of the front wheel and a real 10mm for the clutch.  Am I right on these sizes?  Is there something I'm missing about the bleeder sizes?  Are they some kind of a crazy Italian thing? 

 

So at any rate I decided to go ahead with what I've got and change my brake fluid first.  It made sense to me to start at the real wheel, exchange all the fluid in the system and then bleed the front brakes.  I opened the reservoir, cracked open the SB and pumped the rear brake pedal.  I managed to get a bit of fluid out of the line but then there was nothing but air and no resistance on the pedal...it quit pumping.  The reservoir on the bars is no longer going down.  What am I doing wrong here?  This seems elementary but I'm stumped.

 

Anyone have any suggestions?

79444[/snapback]

Gil...

 

The reservoir for the rear brakes is under the seat, you are looking at the Front Brake reservoir un the bars..!!

 

[Martin Barrett]

Sorry don't know exactly what a speed bleeder is, but I have what I would term as a one way valve on the end of a bit of hose.

 

a-remove seat take top of reservoir

1-For the rear disconnect the caliper from its mount.

2-Wedge something to stop the pads closing completely

3-Position so that the bleed nipple is uppermost - I had a large 17mm open end spanner that did both 2&3 with other end wedged between gear lever and foot peg.

4-connect hose to bleed nipple place other end into glass jar with brake fluid in bottom , so covers end of hose, valve is a bonus but not essential - old fluid is acceptable at this point. Will need to stand bottle on suitable object depending on length of hose. I used old car battery, heavy but acceptably conveniently to hand.

5-Handy to have second person available at this point but can manage without esp if have one way valve.

6- Depress brake pedal and hold

7-open bleed nipple - watch bubble of air go up tube

8-close bleed nipple

9-release bleed nipple

10- repeat steps 6-7 inc ad nauseum - easier with two persons and or one way valve

remembering to top up reservoir with fresh fluid before the hole is exposed

if a one way valve thing is fitted steps 6&7 interchangeable, and can tell how well you're doing as gets nice and firm

 

continue until nice clean fluid comes out hose or no air bubbles emitted, or boredom threshold reached whatever comes last.

 

11-close bleed nipple, release brake, top up reservoir. push pads back, remount caliper, pump brakes, top up reservoir, test ride.

 

Easy with the assistance of the Becky should only take 10mins of her time as long as can follow the instructions Push, Hold & Release.

 

If you can modify instructions to do front calipers you have learn't how to do brake bleeding.

[Martin Barrett]

Yeah seen SFGUZZI's post, Has separate reservoirs and master cylinder for each system, unlike your cage which even if it has dual systems will have a single reservoir. Bloody obvious if you know but not if you've started on cages.

[Dr Gil]

Gil...

 

The reservoir for the rear brakes is under the seat, you are looking at the Front Brake reservoir un the bars..!!

 

79445[/snapback]

 

The really, really stupid part of this is that I actually "thought" I'd tracked the lines AND checked the parts list schematics to make sure there wasn't a second reservoir.

 

I just checked it and sure enough, it's dry. Now to try to get it "primed" again.

 

 

And Martin, yes you are correct. Speed Bleeders HERE are one way valves. I think they are going to make changing that clutch fluid a MUCH easier job.

[Martin Barrett]

Sorry about Granny's eggs

 

 

 

 

 

 

For those who are separated by a common language

Expression is "Teaching your Grandmother to suck eggs" ie Tell me something I didn't know

 

Going back to the G&T

[Dr Gil]

Sorry about Granny's eggs 

For those who are separated by a common language

Expression is "Teaching your Grandmother to suck eggs" ie Tell me something I didn't know

 

Going back to the G&T 

79457[/snapback]

 

*rapidly scribbling notes*

 

Ok then, I'm in the U.K. at the beginning of April...I'll try to fit it into a conversation. Promise it won't get me beat up and thanks for the input.

[stormsedge]

Gil, the SB's look like neat units...when you get the sizes sorted, pls post them. I have my significant other trained for assist in this particular job...leaves both hands free and allows you the chance to get low where you can take a shot in the face. k

[twhitaker]

My '02 LeMans was converted to these little jewels a couple years ago. You need SB8125L for the front. The designation is based on the thread M8-1.25 and you need SB1010S for the rear and the clutch. Again the designation if based on M10-1.0 thread. This worked on my clutch but others had problems with the cone sealing in the bottom of the hole.

[Mr. Bean]

This worked on my clutch but others had problems with the cone sealing in the bottom of the hole.

79532[/snapback]

 

What was the issue with the clutch one..wrong size on some? I have some speed bleeders on order including one for the clutch, (SB1010S.) Is there something I should look out for or do to it prior to trying to install it?

 

Randy

[jrt]

Martin's advice about raising the calipers above the resevoir is a good one. It helps air bubbles migrate up the line.

It also helps to rap the line with a bit of wood or rubber hose to loosen the bubbles that may stick on the sides.

Also- I have speed bleeders but haven't installed them yet- usually, I run a hose from the bleeder valve to a cup with brake fluid in it. Open the relief valve, leave it open the entire time (pumping), and just keep an eye on the reservoir. You don't have to worry about sucking air back up into the line because it would have to pull the fluid in the cup and it can't do that. Cheap person's speed bleeder.

[gh67]

What was the issue with the clutch one..wrong size on some?  I have some speed bleeders on order including one for the clutch, (SB1010S.)  Is there something I should look out for or do to it prior to trying to install it?

79543[/snapback]

be VERY careful when you screw the speedbleeder into the clutch slave. For me, it never gave any real resistance to signify that it was tighting down to seal. the OEM clutch bleeder has a concave tip that butts up against the internal ball bearing in the clutch slave. The speedbleeder has a pointed tip that I couldn't get to seal against the BB to stop any leaks. I kept trying to the point where I over torque the speedbleeder (very easy to do on the brass speedbleeder) and it started to blunt the tip agains the BB. I gave up....not sure how others made it work. I had no problems with the brake speedbleeders....worked great on those.

[Dr Gil]

I must confess I didn't go with Martin's "remove the calipers" method. I didn't understand the need for it. Perhaps I should have paid more attention...it ended up taking me TWO days to do my simple fluid exchange. Granted much of it was done slowly trying to familiarize myself with the process but all in all I've spent WAY too much time kneeling on the garage floor, dealing with incredibly tight spaces with fluids dripping all over me, the bike and the concrete.

 

First off let me say that I hate that clutch bleeder. What was Luigi thinking when he designed that bad boy? If you make the assumption that the bleeder must be located in an almost inaccessible space but couldn't they have at least put a shoulder on it and cocked it off to the left so that a person could reach it in a straight shot? I tried to get the Speed Bleeder to seat but after a full hour of messing about (hands cramping and having to “walk away” several times) trying to get the SB to thread correctly I finally gave it up. I could never be sure about the threading. Bottom line, I really, really didn't want to cross threat the bleeder and deal with the ramifications of cross threads in the clutch cover. So I quit it and put the stock bleeder back in. Of course by this time the fluid had all leaked out onto the garage floor...but my intent was to exchange my fluids anyway so I guess this was kind of a good thing. Eventually I’m going to have to just commit to installing that Speed Bleeder and just install it (or maybe have my dealership deal with it).

 

I ended up bleeding the clutch with a combination of using my " Mity-Vac" and the old fashioned, two person, "pump-hold-crack the bleeder-wait for it-close the bleeder-pump-etc." method.

 

After finally realizing that the rear brake reservoir was under the seat (thank you again V11 board and SFGUZZI) I managed to get the rear brake fluids exchanged (but forgot to bleed them until after taking a test drive and realizing my error)…and bled.

 

The front brake fluids were exchanged without a hitch...all is at it should be with them (except I neglected to purchase enough SB’s to replace both…another is on order as we speak).

 

So there you have it...typically an overly long, simple maintenance thingie…the story of my life. But I have learned and next time it will be easier and I've improved my Le Mans. Not a bad ending, eh?

 

Oh and stormsedge, the Speed Bleeders one needs to fit out our V11’s are:

 

2 of the SB8125L for the front disks and 2 of the SB1010S for the rear brake and clutch.

[Dr Gil]

be VERY careful when you screw the speedbleeder into the clutch slave.  For me, it never gave any real resistance to signify that it was tighting down to seal.  the OEM clutch bleeder has a concave tip that butts up against the internal ball bearing in the clutch slave.  The speedbleeder has a pointed tip that I couldn't get to seal against the BB to stop any leaks.  I kept trying to the point where I over torque the speedbleeder (very easy to do on the brass speedbleeder) and it started to blunt the tip agains the BB.  I gave up....not sure how others made it work.  I had no problems with the brake speedbleeders....worked great on those.

79598[/snapback]

 

Hmm, this together with my experience today makes me wonder if it's worth taking the risk on the clutch speed bleeder.

 

I may simply forego installing the SB and stick with the stock valve. After all it's just once a year that I must go through this nightmare.

[Mr. Bean]

be VERY careful when you screw the speedbleeder into the clutch slave.  For me, it never gave any real resistance to signify that it was tighting down to seal.  the OEM clutch bleeder has a concave tip that butts up against the internal ball bearing in the clutch slave.  The speedbleeder has a pointed tip that I couldn't get to seal against the BB to stop any leaks.  I kept trying to the point where I over torque the speedbleeder (very easy to do on the brass speedbleeder) and it started to blunt the tip agains the BB.  I gave up....not sure how others made it work.  I had no problems with the brake speedbleeders....worked great on those.

79598[/snapback]

 

Hmm...this is a fly in the ointment. The clutch one is the main reason I opted to order these in the first place. When I bled the brakes and clutch last year it was the only one that was a real PITA to get to. Having not yet received the SB's...does it look like they can be modified in any way, (i'm thinking my handy dremel tool here) to fit more like the stock piece?

 

Randy