Air Box Mod?

[Ballacraine]

Hi, folks.

 

Before you folks leap on my case I have done a search for this, 'cos no doubt it has been done to death numerous times.

 

Couldn't find the answer / pics I was looking for so, I am gonna ask you patient lot for advice.

 

What air box mods give the best results on a stock motor with 'fruity' cross-over and cans, please?

 

 

Is it best just to dump the lid, drill it or cut it? If so anybody any pics of an appropriate set up?

 

I do have a PCIII but haven't fitted it yet. Any suggestions on suitable maps?

 

It is running smooth and even, and I do not want to bugger it up

 

Just looking to let out all the urge that is hiding in the stock motor.

 

Thanks for your indulgence and any input.

 

Nige.

[Guzzirider]

I have gone down the road of no airbox lid at all, K and N filter, Stucchi crossover and Mistral pipes. Have got a PC111 USB with custom map.

 

I can't scientifically say that this is the best combination (who honestly can?), but all I will say it that it works for me, and I got a really healthy torque curve, peaking at 72 ft lbs at the back wheel (Guzzi claim 69 ft lbs at the crank for a standard bike). Mid range punch was dramatically improved

 

Mal has done the same mods and got nearly exactly the same results on the dyno with the exception that he had a standard crossover at the time rather than a Stucchi. We used the same local tuning shop (Hobbsport) to make the custom maps, and Mark who runs the shop made a real difference to the bikes.

 

We both have the extra front crossover as fitted to later bikes, which may negate the advantage of having a Stucchi.

 

Helen's V11 is standard apart from Mistral pipes and although it is still a nice bike to ride, the mid range is noticeably weaker than mine.

 

My local Guzzi dealer has taken mine out for a ride and said it was the best sorted V11 he had ridden.

 

I am sure you will get lots of different opinions and probably a few arguments on this one!

 

Guy

 

P.S. Take a peak at the www.guzzitech.com website to see a few dyno graphs.

[Guest ratchethack]

What air box mods give the best results on a stock motor with 'fruity'    cross-over and cans, please?

Is it best just to dump the lid, drill it or cut it? If so anybody any pics of an appropriate set up?

 

I do have a PCIII but haven't fitted it yet. Any suggestions on suitable maps?

 

It is running smooth and even, and I do not want to bugger it up 

 

Just looking to let out all the urge that is hiding in the stock motor.

 

Thanks for your indulgence and any input. 

 

Nige. 

79548[/snapback]

Nige, you're sure to get a pretty good response on this inquiry. I think you'll find that the best performance mod for the airbox is the "lidless" bracket, as offered by FBF. If you cut up your box top, you're more'n likely burning your bridges (unless you consider patching it back up again to be an acceptable reversal), and burning your bridges ain't always a good thing. Case in point:

 

I made up a "lidless" bracket that worked just fine, but ended up not using it and going back to the stock air box top & snorkels. The reason? The tremendous roar of the intake honk was beyond my pain threshold without earplugs, and I just ain't gonna wear 'em. As a frame of reference for what my pain threshold is, I run "open" FBF oval carbon cans thru a Stucchi crossover, and the sound-pressure from this alone is well below my pain threshold, except at throttle openings approaching WOT, where it gets close.

 

I'm running an "off-the-shelf" map for my PC III (#003 from Todd at GuzziTech), which works perfectly for my stock intake setup and Stucchi/FBF exhaust. But when I ran it with the "lidless" bracket, it was instantly clear that an altogether different map would be needed - it gave significant, unacceptable-level lean symptoms from the bottom on up the rev range with the #003 map.

 

If you can wait for my rechargeable camera batteries to take a charge, and if y'er interested, I'll post a shot of my bracket. It wasn't difficult to fab, but the dimensions are fairly critical to ensure a good seal around the air filter.

[Ballacraine]

Thanks for the info, guys...

 

This is just the sort of feedback I am looking for.

 

Guy...Did you just remove the lid and just slot the K&N in or is there a little more to it?

 

Ratchet...Yes, I would like to see pics when you can please?

 

In anticipation of a scenario such as you are describing, I obtained a complete standard spare air box, in case I really make a bollox of it!

 

I am probably going to get a bigger ration of intake noise than you did, because I am in the process of persuading a fairing to fit on it.

 

I agree with you about the ear plug issue, I can't get along with them either, for numerous reasons.

 

Thanks again for the input so far, folks!

 

Nige.

[Guzzirider]

  Thanks for the info, guys...

 

This is just the sort of feedback I am looking for.

 

Guy...Did you just remove the lid and just slot the K&N in or is there a little more to it?

 

Nige. 

79558[/snapback]

 

I have kept the bits that have been cut off and will take a photo tomorrow- basically mine has no lid and no snorkel tops either- just been in the garage rooting around all the bits of Guzzi to take a pic but it was too dark to find anything.

 

I forgot to mention that MPG improved significantly after the PC111 was set up, and I noticed hardly any extra noise with the lidless airbox, but I like noise anyway.

 

Guy

[Guest ratchethack]

In anticipation of a scenario such as you are describing, I obtained a complete standard spare air box, in case I really make a bollox of it! 

A wise & forward-thinking move. In this case, I'd recommend going ahead and cutting "everything that's not a filter bracket" out of one of the airbox tops in favor of the semi-tedium of fabbing-up bracketry from scratch. Even for this old workshop hack, the bracket took a good hour or so of focused effort with shop tools, & resulted in a surprising number of good-sized piles of aluminum dust.

 

I am probably going to get a bigger ration of intake noise than you did, because I am in the process of persuading a fairing to fit on it. 

Yeah, I'd say that's a fair assumption. Don't carve up that spare box-top & snorkel set-up!!

[rocketman]

I have kept the bits that have been cut off and will take a photo tomorrow- basically mine has no lid and no snorkel tops either- just been in the garage rooting around all the bits of Guzzi to take a pic but it was too dark to find anything.

 

I forgot to mention that MPG improved significantly after the PC111 was set up, and I noticed hardly any extra noise with the lidless airbox, but I like noise anyway.

 

Guy 

79566[/snapback]

 

Guzzirider,

what was your MPG before the mod? What are you getting now?

 

Rocketman

[Guzzirider]

Guzzirider,

what was your MPG before the mod?  What are you getting now?

 

Rocketman

79575[/snapback]

 

Rocketman- depends on what type of riding I am doing but at motorway cruising speeds, an estimated increase from 39.7MPG to 44.1MPG (Imperial gallons).

 

If I have converted correctly, 33.1mpg to 36.8mpg in US gallons.

 

Theoretical tank range on long motorway trips is now about 200 miles, although I normally fill up at about 140 to 160 miles.

 

 

Guy

[Guest ratchethack]

Ratchet...Yes, I would like to see pics when you can please?

Nige. 

Nige, FYI - The aluminum is 3/4" x 1/8" strap with a couple of pieces of 1/16" angle pop-riveted on for mounting tabs. It's as simple as it looks, but o'course, it takes longer than you think to fab it up and get all the dimensions nice 'n snugly.

[jrt]

Depends on how much you like to fab stuff up, I guess. Or bodge it up....

 

I have to agree with the aforementioned- don't burn your bridges doing modifications, as you might want to undo them someday and the parts are going to be stupid expensive.

[dlaing]

What air box mods give the best results on a stock motor with 'fruity'    cross-over and cans, please?

79548[/snapback]

If you really want the best results, I suspect fabricating a completely new cold air intake system with large dual pods and intake crossover would be the ultimate.

But I don't know of anyone that has done that yet.

here is a lousy sketch, in carbon fiber would be nice, but I would settle for abs or pvc.

But then again the stock airbox does help the filter stay cleaner....

[rocketman]

Rocketman- depends on what type of riding I am doing but at motorway cruising speeds, an estimated increase from 39.7MPG to 44.1MPG (Imperial gallons).

 

If I have converted correctly, 33.1mpg to 36.8mpg in US gallons.

 

Theoretical tank range on long motorway trips is now about 200 miles, although I normally fill up at about 140 to 160 miles.

Guy 

79579[/snapback]

 

Guzzirider,

That's a significant gain. I have an 04 lemans and the only mod I have done is put on MG Titanium pipes and race ecu. I had the fuel injection retuned because of pinging, and it is better, but it still pings around 5000 rpm when twisting on the throttle. I am getting 35 - 40 MPG pretty consistantly. This isn't bad but I would like better MPG. Based on your numbers I may be able to get another 2, 3, 4 MPG. But I have to spend about $800.00 for the goodies.

 

Rocketman

[Ballacraine]

If you really want the best results, I suspect fabricating a completely new cold air intake system with large dual pods and intake crossover would be the ultimate.

But I don't know of anyone that has done that yet.

here is a lousy sketch, in carbon fiber would be nice, but I would settle for abs or pvc.

But then again the stock airbox does help the filter stay cleaner....

79608[/snapback]

 

I take it you don't subscribe to the large volume of still air theory then?

 

Nige.

[Mal]

Ballacraine

 

as Guy has mentioned I have a moded airbox (when I'm not running pods), just to clarify something though, he said I do not have a lid at all which is not quite true, I have a cut down lid as suggested by Raceco a few years ago, this allows the filter to be held down without making a new clamp (although that probably isn't too difficult and enables you to keep the standard airbox lid although I personally would never go back to standard). I'll attempt to add a picture but if it fails its on the following web link under the "Technical" section.

 

http://www.raceco.com/

 

Once set up with a custom map from Hobbsport it ran very strong as Guzziriders comments testify, and I too got better mpg, very happy

 

Mal

[dlaing]

I take it you don't subscribe to the large volume of still air theory then? 

 

Nige. 

79613[/snapback]

That may be one of the trade offs

 

I certainly would not make any of the porting smaller than the throttle inlet as that would accellerate the air.

I imagine the accelleration of air through the stock snorkles is not a good thing.

 

I am not even sure if I like the two into one concept as it makes the air less still with cross cylinder interference.

But I think gaining twice the effective filter media area, and pulling it from a cooler site are benefits over the conventional pod set up.

And I speculate the X-cross-over should have less cross-cylinder interference than the stock airbox.

But I might pursue two seperate pipes and just go with bigger pods.

BMC makes a 'carbon dynamic airbox'

A pair of those would be "the bomb", but the only place to fit them is probably under the cylinder heads, and they are not inexpensive, so a pair would be expensive.