Finding an affordable oil filter...

[Guest ckamin]

Does anyone have any suggestions about finding a decent oil filter at a local Napa or Kragen store? I change my oil/filter on a regular basis, every 4-6 months, and that is usually with less than 3000 miles between changes. I have been running Mobil 1 V-Twin oil, 20w-50, synthetic.

 

Thanks for the input!

 

-Carl

[Guzzirider]

The standard Guzzi UFi filters are so cheap I would not bother with anything inferior just to save a few pennies.

 

Guy

[Guest ratchethack]

IMHO, contrary to popular misconception, paying more money for a product is no guarantee of superior quality. This is especially true in the case of mass-produced items. After much study and horrendous controversy on this and other Forums , I've settled on the Super Tech 3614 (made by Champion) from Wally World (Walmart) as my oil filter of choice. The cost? A couple o' dollars per copy.

 

Good Golly, Miss Molly and Great Balls o' Fire! I'm not sayin' that the expensive filters - or any other filters for that matter - are no good! To me, it's simply a matter of quality, as defined by how they consistently test out in credible, independently conducted tests - independent of price.

 

Economies of scale achieved with mass production clearly allow for great variances in production and distribution costs that can result in superior quality at lower prices (relative to the norm). I began to subscribe to this myself only after a bunch of research and looking at many different kinds of test results that support the above concept. You can buy yourself a half-dozen (or even more, as I recall) of these little gems for the price of one of the high-dollar filters, and be confident that you've got among the highest quality filtration protection and multiple pass efficiency (SAE HS-806 and J806) ratings of any filter available.

 

On a related note, the Oracle of Bungendore (I so honor the man with only the utmost affection, respect and sincerity!) opines that changing oil filters at every other oil change may be too often. But I do it anyway, just 'cause the ST3614's are so cheap that I buy 'em by the half-dozen. They're so cheap that I can't remember exactly what they cost last time I got 'em - and they've more'n likely gone up since then. Pete's logic is that there's slim to zip probability of a quality filter element becoming loaded enough in normal operation to bypass over many oil changes - and therefore there's simply no reason to change it out more often. Makes perfect sense to me, but then I tend to want to err on the safe side here, so every other oil change it is!

 

BTW, the ST3614 comes out of the box with a sticker on it that has to be removed due to the in-the-sump configuration on the Guzzi. If you don't take it off, it'll more'n likely come off in the hot oil bath of the sump, and it could find a very expensive place to come to rest.

 

FWIW, here's a link (with list of sources) on the subject of oil filters for the Guzzi Big Block with more oil filter considerations than most will likely be motivated enough to read. The author's evidently a Guzzista and claims a P. E. (he's not apparently selling anything, so who's to doubt it?) He recommends only "authorized" filters for the Guzzi - UFI and Fram. Now this doesn't mean he's saying that other filters aren't good enough - or even of equal or better quality! He hasn't said this at all, he's made no claim that he's TESTED any filters himself, nor does he cite any comprehensive competitive testing and evaluation! http://www.mgnoc.com/_overlay/Archives/oil_filters.htm

 

FWIW #2 - IMHO, AIR filter quality is far more important than OIL filter quality (I'm NOT saying that BOTH aren't important!), but *sssssshhhhhhh!* historically, there seem to be sensitive types on that particular topic in these here woods , so by all means, leave us not open their old wounds here! One of the many evidences behind this opinion would be the fact that Guzzi (along with a great long list of other marques) put air filters on their motorcycles many decades before they put oil filters on 'em.

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV

[O2 V11]

I use a Group 7, V241.

Try this link, http://www.sherco-auto.com/oil_filters.htm

Rob

[Steve G.]

Does anyone have any suggestions about finding a decent oil filter at a local Napa or Kragen store? I change my oil/filter on a regular basis, every 4-6 months, and that is usually with less than 3000 miles between changes. I have been running Mobil 1 V-Twin oil, 20w-50, synthetic.

 

Thanks for the input!

 

-Carl

79629[/snapback]

As long as a factory supplied product can be had for near the same money, I go with factory. The UFI filters are sold here in Canada for [as usual, <_ times as much one at a us dealer. when the price is this bad i go looking. didn have to look far. just bought of them from todd mph buddy does business near shop in houston>

You are running great oil [black cap Mobil 1]. Why go cheap on crap filters [and fram are crap].

Ciao, Steve G.

[v50man]

UFI BUILDS A GREAT PRODUCT. Support them and save $ elsewhere...

[Guest rotorhead]

Perhaps just a smidge off of topic but I read this interesting dissertation concerning motorcycle oils (I know this subject gets run into the ground often) but perhaps offers some enlighting details into cost versus quality and that, indeed, " paying more money for a product is no guarantee of superior quality" as was stated by ratchethack. I thought the article was short and to the point and makes an interesting read when your in the bathroom, er....library, or the like.

 

For your reading pleasure:

 

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf

 

And no, I'm not affiliated with amsoil in any way.

[Guest ratchethack]

Interesting stuff, Rotorhead. To me, it's always a bit like puttin' the fox in charge of the henhouse when considering a test of competitive products run by one of the competitors themselves. It's easy to speculate that they included all the evaluation parameters where Amsoil came out on top, and you easily get to wonderin' if there were test parameters considered, but not included, 'cause Amsoil might not've fared quite as well as their comp on those parameters. - but interesting nonetheless!

 

The cost-per-ounce didn't necessarily match up with the top-ranked oils as you pointed out.

 

I note that the automotive oil I use (and possibly oils that some other Guzzisti also use) wasn't tested, as oil for the Guzzi has no JASO MA (wet clutch) requirement, per the oils in the evaluation.

 

What I liked best was the sentence at the conclusion of the conclusion:

 

"In conclusion, maximum performance and cost effectiveness are obtained when one looks beyond marketing claims and selects a product based on the data that supports it."

 

Good words to evaluate stuff by, though I prefer credible, independent data when I can get it!

 

[Skeeve]

Does anyone have any suggestions about finding a decent oil filter at a local Napa or Kragen store?

79629[/snapback]

 

Dunno about NAPA ["Napa" is a town in No. Cal where they bottle spoiled grape juice & fleece the tourists... ] or Kragen/Checkers/Whatever, but the Pep Boys carry PuroLator motorcycle oil filters & at least the one here in da LBC carries the correct model # for Guzzis. Just a datapoint.

 

[pete roper]

Just getting back to the original post you say you change your oil and filter every three or four months? Why?

 

There is this ludicrous idea that changing the filter far more often than recommended is somehow benefficial to the motor, it's not, it's simply wasteful. The filter takes out *lumps*, it's not a magical device that shamanically cures all ills inside the motor. It will work perfectly adequately until it becomes clogged.

 

What causes it to become clogged? Simple, bits above a certain size of foreign matter that either break off engine componentry, (eg, bits of piston ring, piston cam follower etc.) or lumps of stuff like varnish and carboniferous crap that tends to form on hot bits like the undersides of pistons and the like and then flake off.

 

In the case of stuff that actually wears in the engine the particles produced are generally too small to be taken out of the oil by the filter anyway, it usually ends up in the second line of defence, the sludge trap in the crank. The carboniferous shit is very small in quantity. The Guzzi donk has very few moving parts that are likely to wear. It doesn't share it's lubricant with a transmission that by it's nature is forever knocking bits off itself and finally it has a HUGE filter.

 

As I said filters work until the ellement becomes so clogged that the oil supply is blocked. When this happens a spring inside the filter that keeps the ellement in shape collapses allowing the oil to by-pass the filtering medium, (The principle being that un-filtered oil is better than no oil at all.) The thing is that it takes an incredibly long time for a big filter like the stock UFI item to reach that point, especially in a *clean* motor like a Guzzi.

 

Look, earlier machines used a much smaller filter so it would have to become loaded more quickly, yes? Well I've cut apart and examined filters that have done 50,000 miles from late model 850T's which were the first model to use a filter but it is often missed as it is generally thought that the T3 was the first model to use a filter. Some people just never checked by examining the sump! In some cases these even had the original 'Blue' UFI filter which hasn't been in production since the mid eighties so I tend to think they were probably the filter that was fitted in Mandello! I have only ONCE seen a filter that showed evidence of bypassing and that was on one of these filtered 850T's that I was repairing after the cam chain sawed it's way out of the timing chest. It had over 200,000Km on it!!!!!!

 

By all means change your filter as often as you like. It won't do any harm, thing is it won't do any good either! A UFI filter costs about $16 AU, if you change it every third oil change, ie every 15,000Km, that works out to be an astonishing $1.08 per 1,000Km! Given that most people run hideously expensive full synthetic oils in their V11's that sort of outlay on a filter hardly seems extravagant!

 

Changing the oil regularly is far more beneficial than changing the filter, especially on machines that may not get used that often and therefore may well end up with more condensation in their insides than those that are gotten good'n'hot on a regular basis. A Filter isn't like a liver, it doesn't remove all the nasty by-products of combustion that are going to really do damage in the engine, neirther will it take oit particulate crud below a certain size and so that remains in suspension in the oil until it is either drained out or caught by the sludge trap, the longer you leave it between change intervals the greater the chance of such stuff ending up in the trap rather than the drain pan!

 

Incidentally, as a testament to the strength and longevity of a well maintained Guzzi motor I currently have in my workshop a Mk I Lemans motor and driveline. The ownr has always been conscientious and scrupulous with maintenance, especially oil changes. The bike has done 200,000 MILES since he bought it nearly new 28 years ago and apart from a re-ring and head service in 1987 this is the first time it's been apart. I am replacing NONE of the bearings! Mains, big ends, little end bushes, cam bearings? They are all still within spec! The rods are still round at both ends and all clearances and tollerances meet book specs!!!! I know this bike is used fairly hard too. How good is that!!!!! It needs new cam followers, new valves and the guides need K-lining. It's also being shouted a set of Gillardoni barrels and pistons as the bores are slightly oval, a new cam chain and a proper tensioner, new oil pump bearings and new bearings in the distributor. A linnish of the crank and it's just going straight back together. He made the right decision to go through it though as the sludge trap was 2/3rds full.

 

Look after your V11's and I see no reason why they shouldn't offer service very nearly as good. Treat them well, but don't pretend that swapping the filter more often than recommended is some magical panacea, it's not. Good oil, (Any bloody sort!) changed often and a sensible maintenance regieme and you'll get a lifetime of faithful service.

 

Pete