Front end conversion

[beauchemin]

What about getting a set of used stock Marzocchis and inserting a set of Traxxion AK20 cartridges. The cost would be $1000 on top of the Marzocchis (they should be available used for $400) and the end result would rival a set of Ohlins forks. The extra bonus is that you don't have to worry about changing any ancillary parts (axle, fender, triple clamps, etc.)

[Mike Stewart]

I have to disagree with you. Having a Ducati Sport 1000, the stock Marzochhi forks are cheap. They are the same forks that the lower end Monsters use. If you ever went on the DML board, everyone on there is looking to up grade to at least the fully adjustable Showa. Now how can I afford the Ohlins

 

Mike

 

 

 

This sums it up for me: I would rather buy the Ducati Sport1000 over the PaulSmartLE on suspension alone, the "cheaper" Sport's suspension simply worked better on the road... with the riding I did (on the road).

 

I just realised I crapped on verbatim....but sometimes I do these things... in the name of bling get whatever you like... in the name of science see how well you can sort out the standard suspension.

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[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

I could write a 10 page essay on why the ...blah, blah, blah !!

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Please do not say that on this forum or you will temp someone to write a 20 page essay and no one will want to read it.

 

We prefer colour pictures to essays!

 

Like this!!

[Guest ratchethack]

This sums it up for me: I would rather buy the Ducati Sport1000 over the PaulSmartLE on suspension alone, the "cheaper" Sport's suspension simply worked better on the road... with the riding I did (on the road).  

 

... in the name of bling get whatever you like... in the name of science see how well you can sort out the standard suspension.

Mike, I have nothing but respect for your approach and due diligence on forks! IMHO and from what I can tell, your efforts seem to've been hard-earned, and also well-rewarded according your objectives and target use. Your input has always been valued and appreciated.

 

So now I have a question and I'm most sincerely interested in your reply.

 

For strict road use now - Relative to properly set up Marz forks with "ideal" rated springs to load, (and assuming a similarly properly set up rear shock) how would you summarize the value achieved by going to "quantum leap forward" forks on the spine-frame Guzzi chassis, which, relative to modern "Sport bikes", we all know to be fundamentally compromized by:

 

1. The infamous "boat-anchor" bevel drive

2. An otherwise substantially porky aft weight bias

3. Short swingarm

4. Lack of torsional ridgidity

 

One more item - I'd expect similar limitations above for other shaft-drive chassis bikes as well, such as boxer Beemers, for example. Any thoughts on this?

 

TIA

[Mike Stewart]

When new, the Marzochhi forks seemed ok and with mileage the forks started getting soft. So at about the 20,000 mile mark I had a very well known suspension Guru go through my forks and correct them with the right spring rate and valving to match. After plunking down $800. US dollars for the fork and shock respring and revalve my nightmare started.

 

With the sag set, the bike felt way too stiff, mind you everyone at this time did not know much about the Sachs rear shock let alone the Marzochhi front fork. The bike felt terrible on every road, unstable, more nervous handling, I just could not figure out which end of the bike was at fault. I meet another Guzzi owner when out on a ride and he had just received his revalved and resprung forks from the same shop. I asked him how he liked his forks and he replied Not sure. This was the same think I was feeling. So, we both removed our forks and sent them back to have the valving redone. Again, I installed the forks and while they were better, they still did not feel compliant at all. (later talked to the same bike owner and he was still fighting the stiffness in his forks) The bike was so stiff, you could feel the date stamp on a dime if you ran over it. To cut the story short, I had purchased an 03 Rosso Corsa that came with the Ohlins suspension and after one ride, I was sold on the Ohlins. Japp at that time had a pair of like new Ohlins, so I leaped at them and installed them on the Sport. World of difference between my reworked Marzochhi's and the Ohlins. Most of the difference I would say is in the low stiction of the fork tubes and the pistons/shim pack in the Ohlins.

 

If you really need to talk to someone with loads of suspension knowledge, talk to Todd Eagan. He has had his V11 forks (On his Jackal) worked on a few times and he knows the in's and outs of them better than I do. He talked to Marzochhi a few years back and was trying to get them to produce a fully adjustable fork for the Guzzi. He also said that Marzocchi made the forks to Guzzi's specs and thats why they are what they are. Marzocchi does make good forks as I have been using them on my mountain bike for years

 

I know you wanted more but my yard is waiting for me.

 

Mike

 

 

Mike, I have nothing but respect for your approach and due diligence on forks!   IMHO and from what I can tell, your efforts seem to've been hard-earned, and also well-rewarded according your objectives and target use.  Your input has always been valued and appreciated.

 

So now I have a question and I'm most sincerely interested in your reply.

 

For strict road use now - Relative to properly set up Marz forks with "ideal" rated springs to load, (and assuming a similarly properly set up rear shock) how would you summarize the value achieved by going to "quantum leap forward" forks on the spine-frame Guzzi chassis, which, relative to modern "Sport bikes", we all know to be fundamentally compromized by:

 

1. The infamous "boat-anchor" bevel drive

2. An otherwise substantially porky aft weight bias

3. Short swingarm

4. Lack of torsional ridgidity

 

One more item - I'd expect similar limitations above for other shaft-drive chassis bikes as well, such as boxer Beemers, for example.  Any thoughts on this?

 

TIA

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[Guest ratchethack]

If you really need to talk to someone with loads of suspension knowledge, talk to Todd Eagan.  He has had his V11 forks (On his Jackal) worked on a few times and he knows the in's and outs of them better than I do.  He talked to Marzochhi a few years back and was trying to get them to produce a fully adjustable fork for the Guzzi.  He also said that Marzocchi made the forks to Guzzi's specs and thats why they are what they are.  Marzocchi does make good forks as I have been using them on my mountain bike for years

Thanks, Mike.

 

Among the very best consultations I got on fork springs (from at least a half-dozen good sources) came from Todd, as did the Wilbers springs he recommended. Todd was spot-on, as borne out by my laden and unladen sag numbers after I installed the Wilbers. They came in just about as perfectly as I could ever hope for for my weight (180 lbs with heavy full-armor Vanson leathers).

 

With the new springs and 110 mm spacers I get 30% (36 mm) laden and 19% (23 mm) unladen sag.

 

It literally transformed the handling of the bike. Total cost, ~$120.

 

Come to think of it, the cost-to-value here trumps even that of the PC III.

 

The man knows well of which he speaks!

[big J]

Sounds like a great idea to keep you on the road,v rat. I'd imagine that,as noted before,most of the front line sports bikes forks will be too short.

 

Perhaps something from one of the jap retro or sports/tourer lines might have something a bit longer?

 

Go for it I say, best bet is probably just to hit the breakers with a tape rule and find something the right length and round about the same weight/use.

 

If you're working in that kind of environment,it shouldn't be too hard to press out the stock bar from the lower yoke and fit it to your new front end.

[dlaing]

If you read through some of the technical articles at http://www.traxxion.com/ you will find lots of professional opinions on the quality of various stock Japanese bike suspensions.

For example in this forum thread

http://www.traxxion.com/forum/topic.asp?TO...archTerms=guzzi

we learn about suzuki forks

and the article at the end of the thread points to this article

http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/issues/mar01/susp.htm

which suggest gsxr 600/750 have better forks than the gsxr1000

 

Another article on "gas charged" cartridges which could prove to be the future of suspension upgrades.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=24731

....put those in Marzocchis and then the only thing wrong with them will be the stiction and flexing!

 

a comparison suspension of 600 sport bikes

http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/issues/dec00/max.htm

 

and more

http://www.traxxion.com/technical.articles.shtml