relocating fuel pump

[bigbikerrick]

having had a second episode of the mysterious "vapor lock" a couple days ago , Ive been thinking what do you folks think of the idea of mounting the fuel pump on TOP of the spine frame ,where the fuel filter currently sits, and mounting the filter elsewhere, possibly even using a smaller aftermarket filter?? would this work, or is that location up too high? It seems it would get the pump away from all that engine heat. I really would hate to put it in front of the bike as I like the clean ,uncluttered look of the front end. anybody got any ideas?

[Martin Barrett]

Would that not be likely to cause problems should air get into the system, there would no chance for it to bleed out and cavitation* would prevent it being pumped out

 

*don't think it's true cavitation, but the pump would only try and push the air which is compressible or displaceable ( is the pump impeller or diaphragm)

[Skeeve]

having had a second episode of the mysterious "vapor lock" a couple days ago , Ive been thinking what do you folks think of the idea of mounting the fuel pump on TOP of the spine frame ,where the fuel filter currently sits, and mounting the filter elsewhere, possibly even using a smaller aftermarket filter?? would this work, or is that location up too high? It seems it would get the pump away from all that engine heat. I really would hate to put it in front of the bike as I like the clean ,uncluttered look of the front end. anybody got any ideas?

81586[/snapback]

 

Um...

 

Don't see where that's going to solve the problem. Insulating the fuel lines & keeping the whole thing away from the source of heat [ie, anywhere above the engine] is the route to bliss. Routing the fuel lines inside the spine somehow might be a neat bodge, as the frame would act as a heat sink, but I'd sure hate to have to replace them down the road!

 

[al_roethlisberger]

My travails of fuel-pump relocation:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...5&hl=relocating

 

 

In the end, it was workable, but it turned out to be far easier to fit a 2003 tank instead.

 

But this may not be possible on 00-01 bikes due to the shorter frame, and longer 2003+ tank.

 

Al

[nose2wind]

Been gone for a while. My bike is a 2000 V11s. The pump is still in the stock location, no shielding. Was reading your article on relocating the pump. In the end did moving the pump alone solve the problem? I already have pod filters and a manual fuel cutoff so moving the pump alone would not be that hard. I have had the vapor lock problem occur at high altitudes and now at near sea level. I solved both by disconnecting the fuel line at the cutoff and reconecting. Bike restarted and ran perfectly.

 

Thanks for any help,

 

David

[nose2wind]

85270[/snapback]

 

 

Wanted to add a little more info on my experience with this problem.

 

My first incident was summer riding in colorado. Stopped for gas. Got about 100 yards from filling station and bike started bucking etc. quit. Was able to restart after cycling ignition switch several times. Bike ran fine for 2 years after that.

 

Second incident summer riding at high altitude. Stopped for a rest. Same symptons as above. 30 mins cooling off would not fix problem. Upon disconnecting the fuel line from elec. petcock big gas-air bubble discharged. Reconnected line bike started and ran fine. Next stop low altitude still hot same problem. Managed to start bike and get underway.

 

Upon returning home ordered manual petcock. My theory here was maybe the big gas-airbubble could work its way up through the fuel line into the tank even with the switch off (not possible with elec. petcock). Also shortened and tied fuel line with zip tie so it would be as far away from cylinder head ( Stock setup had the line resting on the cyl. Head!)

 

Bike ran fine for another 3 years no other incidents. Never as stock either in hot Texas summer. Bike has 41,000 K

 

Third incident is as my first post. First to occur in Texas. Fixed by removing and reconecting fuel line.

 

Summary, I can move the pump? Is this a proven fix?

 

I also wonder (since not all v11's have this problem with the pump in its stock location) if the pump is at fault. Maybe some work better in this situation because they have a better seal etc. Has anyone just tried fitting a new pump maybe even a different brand? Any suggestions on an alternate pump?

 

Thanks again,

 

David

[twhitaker]

I think the pump has been in 3 different locations in this series of bikes. Yours (not really sure where that is), mine (in front of the engine), and the latest (inside the tank).

 

My bike has had no vapor lock problems although I did have a tank suck issue once. My Lemans has the oil cooler mounted high up in front of the fuel pump with some sort of heat shield wrapping the rear 2/3 of the pump housing. The fuel line is resting on the left head and the fairing blocks most of the cooling air the hose might get if it were an unfaired model.

 

IMHO mounting your pump high under the gas tank would do no good. I do not see how any cooling air would get to that area when the bike is stopped and the heat from the engine would heat soak the system pretty quickly.

 

[nose2wind]

I think the pump has been in 3 different locations in this series of bikes. Yours (not really sure where that is), mine (in front of the engine), and the latest (inside the tank).

 

My bike has had no vapor lock problems although I did have a tank suck issue once. My Lemans has the oil cooler mounted high up in front of the fuel pump with some sort of heat shield wrapping the rear 2/3 of the pump housing. The fuel line is resting on the left head and the fairing blocks most of the cooling air the hose might get if it were an unfaired model.

 

IMHO mounting your pump high under the gas tank would do no good. I do not see how any cooling air would get to that area when the bike is stopped and the heat from the engine would heat soak the system pretty quickly.

 

85282[/snapback]

 

Thanks for the reply. It seems that moving the fuel line is not an issue since yours sits on the head and with no ill effects. Obviously the pump is the problem since they felt it needed to be moved and partially wraped with shielding. I understand your comment on lack of ventilation under the tank, however it is farther away from the heat source and I could make an aluminum shield under the pump to reduce reflect some of the heat.

 

Thanks again.

[Mike Stewart]

I think the problem lies in the fuel pump location. If you removed the hose from the electric petcock and air was present, this is where the vapor lock issue is. When the bike is hot after just being ridden, the temperture increases a few more degrees since air is not flowing. This allows the fuel to vaporize either in the fuel pump or fuel feed hose. The reason the bike starts up then dies is because there is still fuel pressure from the fuel pump to the injectors. Once this pressure drops, the fuel pump is trying to pump vapor which is not going to work. I also agree that the electric petcock should be replaced just as a precaution.

 

Mike

[friskycutter]

Simplicity is almost always best.

 

I used aluminum insulating foil, it has a thick rubber adhesive backing. I think it was only $12 or something. Take out the pump put two wraps on the pump and re-install using heat duct strapping/hanger as the pump is now a larger diameter so the original brackets wont fit and the strapping already has holes in it for the bolts.

 

This is from Gord at Valley cycle for a repair on his own V11, ask those who should know I guess

 

This will save you the relocation problems hopefully

[al_roethlisberger]

I can't say for certain if a remote relocation of the fuel pump will totally solve the problem, as I didn't leave mine relocated for very long before fitting the new 2003 tank(when the original tank's defective paint started to bubble off). Once I had the new 2003 tank, I scrapped the fuel pump relocation project obviously.

 

But I think the relocation would work well if one did so.

 

However, I also agree that I would try the simple solution first, especially since you've only encountered this problem a couple times in as many years. Just shielding the pump may be enough to stave off the problem in everything but the most extreme conditions.

 

And hey, as it was often pointed out to me whilst I was looking into this: "Is it really so bad to be forced to sit around for 30-45 minutes, take in the scenery, and stretch your legs after riding 100+ miles?"

 

And again, if this only happens once every couple years

 

But if the shielding doesn't work, the next step I would take is to consider putting the pump out front and above the oil cooler in the stock Centauro location, that some of our V11s also have used from the factory. I've never heard of one of these bikes with this location have the vapor lock issue.

 

BTW, not including the new in-tank pump, the V11 has had 3 different potential locations:

 

1: Above the spine where most have their fuel filter(the orig drawings spec the pump in this location) ... I have never seen one delivered this way from the factory though.

2: Down to the left and under the spine where one would have their filter if the pump was in location 1

3: "out front" over the oil cooler ala Centauro/Sport1100i

 

Then in the 2003 models, MG went to the in-tank fuel pump/filter module that apparently solved all of this, which makes #4 for the total count of potential stock pump locations.

 

For locations 1-3, it seems there was no rhyme or reason for why a certain run had any particular location used.

 

Al

[Mike Stewart]

Does anyone have a picture of the front frame mounted pumps. I need to figure out where to put my fuel pump on my Jackal project .

 

Does the frame mounted pump look Butt Ugly?

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

 

 

I can't say for certain if a remote relocation of the fuel pump will totally solve the problem, as I didn't leave mine relocated for very long before fitting the new 2003 tank(when the original tank's defective paint started to bubble off).  Once I had the new 2003 tank, I scrapped the fuel pump relocation project obviously.

 

But I think the relocation would work well if one did so.

 

However, I also agree that I would try the simple solution first, especially since you've only encountered this problem a couple times in as many years.  Just shielding the pump may be enough to stave off the problem in everything but the most extreme conditions.

 

And hey, as it was often pointed out to me whilst I was looking into this:  "Is it really so bad to be forced to sit around for 30-45 minutes, take in the scenery, and stretch your legs after riding 100+ miles?" 

 

And again, if this only happens once every couple years 

 

But if the shielding doesn't work, the next step I would take is to consider putting the pump out front and above the oil cooler in the stock Centauro location, that some of our V11s also have used from the factory.  I've never heard of one of these bikes with this location have the vapor lock issue.

 

BTW, not including the new in-tank pump, the V11 has had 3 different potential locations:

 

1:  Above the spine where most have their fuel filter(the orig drawings spec the pump  in this location) ... I have never seen one delivered this way from the factory though.

2:  Down to the left and under the spine where one would have their filter if the pump was in location 1

3:  "out front" over the oil cooler ala Centauro/Sport1100i

 

Then in the 2003 models, MG went to the in-tank fuel pump/filter module that apparently solved all of this, which makes #4 for the total count of potential stock pump locations.

 

For locations 1-3, it seems there was no rhyme or reason for why a certain run had any particular location used.

 

Al

85870[/snapback]

[dlaing]

BTW, not including the new in-tank pump, the V11 has had 3 different potential locations:

 

1:  Above the spine where most have their fuel filter(the orig drawings spec the pump  in this location) ... I have never seen one delivered this way from the factory though.

2:  Down to the left and under the spine where one would have their filter if the pump was in location 1

3:  "out front" over the oil cooler ala Centauro/Sport1100i

 

85870[/snapback]

 

I think if you switch to pod air filters you can put the pump where the air filter box is.

 

Also instead of moving the oil cooler to the Centauro/Sport1100i position, with a little more bracket making, you could move it to the Griso oil cooler positon

 

I also like the idea of going to the manual petcock as the electric one may increase the risk of vapor lock as evidenced by the problem clearing when the hose was pulled...(don't tell me it is already manual <_>

[nose2wind]

I think if you switch to pod air filters you can put the pump where the air filter box is.

 

Also instead of moving the oil cooler to the Centauro/Sport1100i position, with a little more bracket making, you could move it to the Griso oil cooler positon

 

I also like the idea of going to the manual petcock as the electric one may increase the risk of vapor lock as evidenced by the problem clearing when the hose was pulled...(don't tell me it is already manual <_>

85933[/snapback]

 

 

I decided to move my pump where the filter is and the filter where the pump was kinda! Took about 1hour and did not involve any new parts. I have pod filters and a manual petcock. Pretty straight forward exchange. I removed the filter and pump first. I installed the pump with one clamp only at a slight angle to the frame using the mounting bolts that came with the filter mount. My air sensor is right behind the pump and this facilitated connecting my fuel line etc. This also meant I could use the stock fuel line to the petcock. The line out of the pump goes straight to the petcock. I reconnected the original elec. wires after re-routing them on the right side of the frame very easy. Moving to the filter I flipped the clamps over so the filter would be further up on the frame instead of hanging down close to th cylinder head like the pump was. I had to cut the fuel line from the pump to the filter as it was to long and fouling at the front of the tank where it bends to go aft to the filter. I used the original bolts and location for the pump. Re-attached everything and was done! Pretty easy switch. While I had the tank off I mixed some epoxy and glued some of the reflective material, that is mounted under and to the tank, back in place. I also changed the filter.

 

Runs fine so far. Not a real heat test though. The filter sits between the cyl. head and the pump. should make for a nice heat shield.

 

I have pictures if anyone is interested. I don't know how to post them.

 

Thanks,

 

David

 

I'm headed up to Arkansas for some good ride'n. Will se how it goes.

[nose2wind]

I decided to move my pump where the filter is and the filter where the pump was kinda!  Took about 1 hour and did not involve any new parts.  I have pod filters and a manual petcock.  Pretty straight forward exchange.  I removed the filter and pump first.  I installed the pump with one clamp only at a slight angle to the frame using the mounting bolts that came with the filter mount.  My air sensor is right behind the pump and this facilitated connecting my fuel line etc.  This also meant I could use the stock fuel line to the petcock.  The line out of the pump goes straight to the petcock.  I reconnected the original elec. wires after re-routing them on the right side of the frame very easy.  Moving to the filter I flipped the clamps over so the filter would be further up on the frame instead of hanging down close to the cylinder head like the pump was.  I had to cut the fuel line from the pump to the filter as it was to long and fouling at the front of the tank where it bends to go aft to the filter. I used the original bolts and pump mount location for the filter. Re-attached  everything and was done!  Pretty easy switch.  While I had the tank off I mixed some epoxy and glued some of the reflective material, that is mounted under and to the tank, back in place.  I also changed the filter.

 

Runs fine so far.  Not a real heat test though.  The filter sits between the cyl. head and the pump.  should make for a nice heat shield.

 

I have pictures if anyone is interested.  I don't know how to post them.

 

Thanks,

 

David

 

I'm headed up to Arkansas for some good ride'n.  Will se how it goes.

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